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oh my gosh

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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welcome back to calling all being Sunday

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Morning Edition I'm your host DJ along

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with the brothers money Nathan and the

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man himself from the UK Frank and we are

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here to bring you a Sunday Morning

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Edition of none other than our very

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special guest Graham Randall we're going

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to get to him in a second but uh Nathan

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uh despite my difficulty sleeping last

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night how are you this morning uh sir uh

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wide awake now thank you uh a little

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coffee coffee here

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um really excited to talk to Graham it's

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been a while since we've had him on the

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show we're huge fans of Graham uh the

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guy is incredible and uh we're lucky to

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have him on and also lucky to have Frank

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Frank it's good to see you again and to

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catch up with you it's gonna be a great

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morning show so I mean happy Sunday

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everybody and and uh joining us again uh

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thankfully he's he's got some time in

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this very busy schedule he's got going

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on the host right the host of UFO

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thinker podcast Frank part of the uh cab

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podcast network uh my man Frank what's

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up brother yeah doing pretty good mate

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pretty good as you said it's been a

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hectic couple of months really I mean

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yeah my life outside of the UFO stuff's

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been a bit bit on the busy side but um

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I'm a bit more relaxed now and I got a

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little bit more time so it's great to be

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back and uh I've got my hay fever has

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kicked in this morning

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um with a passion it's that time of year

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for me I'm not exactly sure I always

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look into this each year

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we'll hit the snooze

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but whatever throws but he's back there

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you go I'm back yeah yeah so I was just

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saying whatever pollen it is that I'm

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allergic to

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um is now in abundance in the atmosphere

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around my house so I might sneeze a few

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times today I'll try and mute myself if

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I do but other than that you're doing

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pretty good

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I think that adds something to the show

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I really liked that you know that it's

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organic yeah it's something something

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it's authentic it is all right we got a

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couple people in the chat first of all I

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want to say hello to Julie good morning

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Julie thanks for being here early uh

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Gerald Greenwood is here Mick Ashworth

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was first up in the joint uh before any

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of us came on uh Mick was already here

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uh man I'll tell you what guys uh I put

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it on the cow the cap chat but Mick has

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some amazing uh experiences with uh

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speaking uh using that Spirit Box and

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contacting spirits who are in turn

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having other conversations with other

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Spirits while he's on it is amazing and

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look at that Ryan Sprague in the joint

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all right so um so our guest uh of Honor

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this morning like uh basically uh Nathan

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said to me we got to get Graham back on

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we got I'm like yeah man it's it's been

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time we got to get Grandma and see what

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the hell's on his mind uh we're gonna

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see uh Frank wild out a little bit about

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NASA uh and Sean kick Patrick

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so uh

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right here is the author he just told us

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oh we lost your I lost your audio DJ

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was it just me or did everybody else no

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he dropped out hello everybody he's the

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author of 14 books four on UFOs UFOs for

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Roswell dawn of the flying saucers

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Flying Saucer fever intercept and

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identify that's the most recent one

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covering aerial UFO encounters from 1953

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to 1954.

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The Honorable the venerable Graham

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Randall welcome sir hello I'm not

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wearing this for a better or I'm

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actually in the middle of rehearsals and

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my wife's play so I just happened to be

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playing in mayor who was wearing a black

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triangle hat incredible so we're gonna

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get into some black triangles if you

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haven't uh if I'm correct here I don't

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think you've covered those specifically

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yet in in your books but I have a

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feeling maybe a hunch

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but they're coming well you say that um

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I have actually there's a brief

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reference to them in the Foo Fighters

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book so there was a Spitfire pilot over

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Northumberland in England uh encountered

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four uh something like 22 000 feet in

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January 1944 I think it was so that's

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still something I'm trying to chase down

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some more details about uh but that's

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the only reference so far yeah triangles

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don't really enter into it in terms of

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Airborne sightings until much later

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amazing now Graham uh for those of the

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folks who are listening who aren't as

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familiar with what your work you know

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how often you're writing these books you

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mentioned before they started the show

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you're you're always writing you love

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writing uh what is kind of the the

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Cadence for you and I mean you're

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releasing these books on I feel like

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every six months ish or so what what do

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you have a road map that you have a

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trajectory here what what's what do we

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look forward to to be honest I just got

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released when they're done

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um there's no sense hanging on to them

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or you know for any longer I mean I just

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want them to be out there so people can

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appreciate them really

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um and it's what I do so as I mentioned

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to you before you know we started I've

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always loved writing I used to write

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magazine articles before I started

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writing books um and I would just write

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for pleasure anyway so writing is not a

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chore it's not something I sort of dread

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I don't really get right as block

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um I did have a period of time after I

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had a concussion back in about 2016 or

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so

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um when I kind of lost that kind of Mojo

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and I couldn't write for a little while

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until you know my head became

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descrambled or whatever it was

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um so I had a bit where a bit of time

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when I couldn't really write anything

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but frankly that's in the past now so

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yeah I get up in the morning if I'm not

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doing anything else and seven o'clock

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I'm sitting in a desk in the house with

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a cup of coffee and I'm just writing

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um and then other times I've got a spare

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hour and out and about I'll find a

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coffee shop somewhere

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um and I'll just you know I'll have a

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laptop with me wherever I go uh so if

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I'm on a train or whatever then you know

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it's a perfect place to ride and I don't

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need clients you know I can sit in the

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middle of a busy coffee shop or a little

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bit in the middle of a busy Railway

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Carriage

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um and I'm totally fine about writing uh

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I can just you know Zone in on what I'm

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doing

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um so yeah yeah that's pretty much what

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I do so yes the books might come out

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quite quickly but actually the the

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series that I've gone into now which is

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this um these kind of aerial kind of

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encounters books like certain years they

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almost write themselves to to a certain

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point

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um that you know it's a formula now that

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seems to be tried and tested

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um I've already this is like what the

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third one now uh and identifying so

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they're they're not easy to write when

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that's probably too I can't really say

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that but they're not difficult there's

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some yeah I can not churn out either

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that's the wrong phrase but it it's not

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just a case of Thunder thinking oh what

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do I go right now uh wait so you're

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saying there's a lot of material in the

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historical record about UFOs that you're

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no but also it's stuff that you know is

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out there but never featured in books

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that certainly I read in the in the 70s

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and 80s and and they covered a lot of

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things so you'd get

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um books that had you know citing after

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cycling after citing but you were lucky

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if you got like two or three lines about

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each one or a paragraph or two about

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each one

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um but they're very very little deal

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beyond that and I used to be you know I

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might be like you I don't know but I

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used to scratch my head and think I want

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to know more about this case I want to

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know you know the what and the way and

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the back end of everything

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um so these cases I a lot of them

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mergers I've never seen them anywhere in

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print before uh put the intelligence

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files are there and it's just a question

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they're digging them up and looking

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through them and and basically pushing

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them out so people can read them for

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themselves because you know there might

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be somebody like me uh who was just

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starting out on that Journey all those

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years ago who who's out there now who's

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got the same kind of quest for knowledge

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and and that they're not getting it from

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somewhere else but if they're picking

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the books up hopefully that'll address

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some of the you know the sort of like

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the concerns they about you know why I'm

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not reading more love it love it all

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right we lost DJ he looks like he is

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Back DJ let's do a mic test

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test test Graham Randall

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hello how you doing

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all right brother

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um I I have to mention uh Debs is not

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here today her son is having a birthday

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party that she is planning uh and you

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are one of her absolute favorite if not

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her favorite person in this community as

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a whole

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um not only just because you're you

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Grimm rental as a person but also

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because you're a researcher uh and

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author so I think you guys share that

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same passion

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um and you know what's funny is as

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Nathan was talking I was trying to think

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of uh he used the word curious and he

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also he he described uses him that word

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to describe himself uh and me so I was

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thinking if there's one thing that the

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entire Community even when you have

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these people that are at odds is

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curiosity a thread that runs through

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everybody that's maybe the one thing

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yeah definitely curiosity and that's how

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I started you know it was something that

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a book was given to me which was

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intriguing you know and and it just

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seemed you know there must be more to

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this and it was also something that set

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me on this on this path to where I am

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now but yeah back in the day there just

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wasn't enough information

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um and not maybe just because people

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didn't have access to the files that

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they do now you know with the internet

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now you can find out so much stuff but

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also so a lot of things have been

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digitized or if they haven't been then

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you can get to them other ways so it's a

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it's a lot easier um today to be able to

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write a book like the one I've done then

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I would have been able to do when I was

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a teenager when I was just starting out

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on that journey I could never have done

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this back then it would have been too

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difficult to self-publish anyway you

272
00:10:33,110 --> 00:10:30,600
know you would have to look at an event

273
00:10:34,970 --> 00:10:33,120
of antipress so you'd be paying that

274
00:10:36,710 --> 00:10:34,980
money to to come out with a limited

275
00:10:39,710 --> 00:10:36,720
number of copies of a book which you

276
00:10:41,269 --> 00:10:39,720
would then have to Hawk yourself

277
00:10:43,730 --> 00:10:41,279
um you know sort of thing and that

278
00:10:45,350 --> 00:10:43,740
wouldn't get you nowhere uh so yeah it

279
00:10:47,150 --> 00:10:45,360
was uh it would have been very difficult

280
00:10:49,190 --> 00:10:47,160
whereas now it's a hell of a lot more

281
00:10:51,650 --> 00:10:49,200
more easy and with social media as well

282
00:10:53,810 --> 00:10:51,660
you can get sort of much more known and

283
00:10:56,150 --> 00:10:53,820
the the information the books that you

284
00:10:57,750 --> 00:10:56,160
write can be can be advertised around

285
00:10:59,090 --> 00:10:57,760
the world so yeah

286
00:11:01,250 --> 00:10:59,100
[Music]

287
00:11:02,930 --> 00:11:01,260
yeah and I I know one thing I know one

288
00:11:05,090 --> 00:11:02,940
archive that Frank really wants to get

289
00:11:07,970 --> 00:11:05,100
into and that's David marlar's black

290
00:11:09,829 --> 00:11:07,980
triangle everything that he's got right

291
00:11:12,110 --> 00:11:09,839
Franklin

292
00:11:13,730 --> 00:11:12,120
yeah definitely I'm all about the the

293
00:11:16,430 --> 00:11:13,740
black triangles for some reason they're

294
00:11:18,949 --> 00:11:16,440
just a particular area of Fascination

295
00:11:21,410 --> 00:11:18,959
for me and um obviously with Graham's

296
00:11:23,509 --> 00:11:21,420
black triangular hat earlier on uh I do

297
00:11:25,310 --> 00:11:23,519
wonder if there'll be any any delving

298
00:11:28,130 --> 00:11:25,320
into black triangles in in any future

299
00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:28,140
Publications from Graham perhaps I'm

300
00:11:33,889 --> 00:11:31,680
sure there will be yeah sorry no it's

301
00:11:35,930 --> 00:11:33,899
okay it just it just begged a question

302
00:11:37,970 --> 00:11:35,940
that I have a Frank

303
00:11:41,329 --> 00:11:37,980
um so when you're looking at these black

304
00:11:42,949 --> 00:11:41,339
triangles uh Frank when you're thinking

305
00:11:44,810 --> 00:11:42,959
about it like and you're thinking about

306
00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:44,820
someone's reporting seeing an entire

307
00:11:49,190 --> 00:11:47,040
craft not just even like the wing form

308
00:11:52,130 --> 00:11:49,200
but one that's like a legitimate Delta

309
00:11:53,569 --> 00:11:52,140
you know triangle what's the first if

310
00:11:55,069 --> 00:11:53,579
you were looking up and seeing that

311
00:11:56,630 --> 00:11:55,079
what's the first question that would

312
00:11:59,630 --> 00:11:56,640
come into your mind

313
00:12:02,030 --> 00:11:59,640
if you saw one of those at at a range

314
00:12:04,190 --> 00:12:02,040
where you could make out work out what

315
00:12:05,990 --> 00:12:04,200
what exactly what you're looking at

316
00:12:07,670 --> 00:12:06,000
I I don't really know what the first

317
00:12:09,170 --> 00:12:07,680
question would be I suppose you wouldn't

318
00:12:10,910 --> 00:12:09,180
know that until one of them appears

319
00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:10,920
above your head and then you've face to

320
00:12:14,389 --> 00:12:12,720
face with the thing and then you have to

321
00:12:16,730 --> 00:12:14,399
just see what comes into your head at

322
00:12:18,470 --> 00:12:16,740
that moment in time but I think I think

323
00:12:20,389 --> 00:12:18,480
the thing that that always fascinates me

324
00:12:22,730 --> 00:12:20,399
about the black triangles is that

325
00:12:25,850 --> 00:12:22,740
they're probably I suppose you could say

326
00:12:28,250 --> 00:12:25,860
you know the least ambiguous you know

327
00:12:30,050 --> 00:12:28,260
like certainly with with orb type shapes

328
00:12:32,090 --> 00:12:30,060
or lights in the sky and things like

329
00:12:34,269 --> 00:12:32,100
that there is a certain amount of you

330
00:12:36,110 --> 00:12:34,279
know there's a higher perhaps chance of

331
00:12:38,329 --> 00:12:36,120
misidentifications and that kind of

332
00:12:39,650 --> 00:12:38,339
thing and when you're talking about I

333
00:12:41,449 --> 00:12:39,660
mean this is coming from the point of

334
00:12:43,009 --> 00:12:41,459
view of somebody who's never seen what I

335
00:12:45,170 --> 00:12:43,019
would consider to be you know an

336
00:12:47,569 --> 00:12:45,180
anomalous UFO as well sort of thing so

337
00:12:48,829 --> 00:12:47,579
if if I had seen something that did a

338
00:12:50,470 --> 00:12:48,839
right angle turns and all the rest of it

339
00:12:53,329 --> 00:12:50,480
that's a bit different but for me

340
00:12:54,949 --> 00:12:53,339
reports of of black triangles what's

341
00:12:57,829 --> 00:12:54,959
particularly interesting is the thing

342
00:13:01,190 --> 00:12:57,839
that people see them so close and they

343
00:13:03,829 --> 00:13:01,200
see the detail you know it's so close up

344
00:13:06,949 --> 00:13:03,839
that for me it's just so unambiguous and

345
00:13:09,889 --> 00:13:06,959
the most compelling reports that I've

346
00:13:11,509 --> 00:13:09,899
had about these that kind of thing where

347
00:13:13,610 --> 00:13:11,519
people are saying it's literally like

348
00:13:15,530 --> 00:13:13,620
you know between 50 and 100 feet away

349
00:13:17,389 --> 00:13:15,540
and they can make out the detail on the

350
00:13:18,829 --> 00:13:17,399
underneath of The Craft and you know

351
00:13:21,350 --> 00:13:18,839
street lights are shining off them and

352
00:13:23,329 --> 00:13:21,360
things like that and so yeah that's what

353
00:13:25,430 --> 00:13:23,339
makes it so so intriguing for me me

354
00:13:27,710 --> 00:13:25,440
personally but I think um in terms of

355
00:13:29,269 --> 00:13:27,720
the first question I suppose it's the

356
00:13:31,129 --> 00:13:29,279
big one about black triangles for me

357
00:13:33,290 --> 00:13:31,139
personally is like what what's the

358
00:13:34,850 --> 00:13:33,300
purpose what are they actually doing why

359
00:13:36,829 --> 00:13:34,860
are they so close to civilian

360
00:13:38,750 --> 00:13:36,839
populations and why do they have these

361
00:13:40,129 --> 00:13:38,760
lights on them and why are they hovering

362
00:13:41,449 --> 00:13:40,139
solo to the ground you know what I mean

363
00:13:43,069 --> 00:13:41,459
there's a lot of things that don't make

364
00:13:44,449 --> 00:13:43,079
sense and the purpose of what they're

365
00:13:46,430 --> 00:13:44,459
actually up to is is the biggest

366
00:13:48,590 --> 00:13:46,440
question for me another question is

367
00:13:49,790 --> 00:13:48,600
who's flying them well yeah who's

368
00:13:51,949 --> 00:13:49,800
operating them

369
00:13:53,930 --> 00:13:51,959
Nick asked that in the chat Mick

370
00:13:55,970 --> 00:13:53,940
Ashworth said that

371
00:13:57,769 --> 00:13:55,980
um I I've probably told you this before

372
00:14:00,829 --> 00:13:57,779
Frank a long time ago when we first

373
00:14:02,509 --> 00:14:00,839
started talking but my my area of New

374
00:14:03,590 --> 00:14:02,519
York to Hudson Valley you guys all know

375
00:14:06,889 --> 00:14:03,600
about

376
00:14:08,569 --> 00:14:06,899
um the the co-author book by Dr jail and

377
00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:08,579
heineck you know that Linda Zimmerman

378
00:14:15,170 --> 00:14:11,040
has written I think four books now on

379
00:14:17,569 --> 00:14:15,180
Hudson Valley UFOs and I have of just my

380
00:14:19,970 --> 00:14:17,579
classmates or people that went to my

381
00:14:21,129 --> 00:14:19,980
high school the years I was there I

382
00:14:25,790 --> 00:14:21,139
probably have

383
00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:25,800
five six or more including one of them

384
00:14:30,530 --> 00:14:27,600
her dad was a police officer they watch

385
00:14:32,210 --> 00:14:30,540
one fly right over she lives like a

386
00:14:35,509 --> 00:14:32,220
couple streets over from the high school

387
00:14:38,030 --> 00:14:35,519
saw a black triangle fly in daytime fly

388
00:14:40,610 --> 00:14:38,040
right over and I've and I have multiple

389
00:14:43,189 --> 00:14:40,620
classmates that have seen that uh that's

390
00:14:45,949 --> 00:14:43,199
where the the nuclear power plant was at

391
00:14:47,569 --> 00:14:45,959
the time it shut down now but um

392
00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:47,579
I just thought that was interesting you

393
00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:49,440
know that my town happens to be one

394
00:14:53,509 --> 00:14:51,360
where many people have had that very

395
00:14:55,129 --> 00:14:53,519
experience you're talking about but it

396
00:14:57,230 --> 00:14:55,139
wasn't cool to talk about it back then

397
00:14:59,569 --> 00:14:57,240
the way it is now

398
00:15:00,230 --> 00:14:59,579
so it's wild

399
00:15:02,389 --> 00:15:00,240
um

400
00:15:04,910 --> 00:15:02,399
Graham yeah I I think you think about

401
00:15:07,970 --> 00:15:04,920
who's who's flying it you know what is

402
00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:07,980
the type of entity that is is there

403
00:15:11,810 --> 00:15:09,600
actually

404
00:15:13,670 --> 00:15:11,820
um is it a drone type thing which it

405
00:15:15,889 --> 00:15:13,680
doesn't lend itself to that because of

406
00:15:17,210 --> 00:15:15,899
the fact that it's so big that you I was

407
00:15:19,370 --> 00:15:17,220
thinking that Frank was going to say

408
00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:19,380
something along the lines of like how

409
00:15:22,850 --> 00:15:20,880
many people are in there you know and

410
00:15:25,670 --> 00:15:22,860
when I say people I mean how many beings

411
00:15:27,769 --> 00:15:25,680
are in there because uh having a large

412
00:15:29,569 --> 00:15:27,779
craft would mean okay well a lot of

413
00:15:31,009 --> 00:15:29,579
people can fit in there otherwise you

414
00:15:33,410 --> 00:15:31,019
might see the metallic orb that

415
00:15:35,509 --> 00:15:33,420
Kirkpatrick was talking about right

416
00:15:37,550 --> 00:15:35,519
we're not assuming their human

417
00:15:41,870 --> 00:15:37,560
Dimensions though

418
00:15:43,610 --> 00:15:41,880
okay good yes meaning uh meaning you

419
00:15:45,530 --> 00:15:43,620
mean if they're bigger there could be

420
00:15:48,110 --> 00:15:45,540
less is that what you mean it could be

421
00:15:49,970 --> 00:15:48,120
or maybe they're non-corporal

422
00:15:52,250 --> 00:15:49,980
as well that's another thing so you know

423
00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:52,260
they don't have a physical form so you

424
00:15:56,030 --> 00:15:54,720
know there might be other ways that

425
00:15:57,650 --> 00:15:56,040
um you know whoever operates them but

426
00:15:58,850 --> 00:15:57,660
also they could they could be human and

427
00:16:01,370 --> 00:15:58,860
they could be something you know like

428
00:16:02,990 --> 00:16:01,380
the like they do somewhere remotely uh

429
00:16:04,910 --> 00:16:03,000
pilot would like to do with today's

430
00:16:07,129 --> 00:16:04,920
drones if there's some kind of human

431
00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:07,139
Tech I mean again you know nothing's

432
00:16:10,910 --> 00:16:08,880
been ruled out yet as to you know what

433
00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:10,920
they are and who operates them

434
00:16:14,150 --> 00:16:12,720
um so you know these are all basically

435
00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:14,160
hypotheticals at the moment because we

436
00:16:17,689 --> 00:16:15,360
don't have any hard and fast evidence

437
00:16:20,269 --> 00:16:17,699
about you know what they are yet to part

438
00:16:21,949 --> 00:16:20,279
with the human Tech the the problem you

439
00:16:24,050 --> 00:16:21,959
get to there is the fact that you don't

440
00:16:26,150 --> 00:16:24,060
hear anything oh yeah you don't you

441
00:16:28,490 --> 00:16:26,160
don't hear an engine

442
00:16:31,550 --> 00:16:28,500
um they they don't have any regard for

443
00:16:34,370 --> 00:16:31,560
what for airspace or altitude or things

444
00:16:36,110 --> 00:16:34,380
that somebody that was flying a

445
00:16:38,810 --> 00:16:36,120
terrestrial aircraft would want to

446
00:16:39,829 --> 00:16:38,820
adhere to some of these things like you

447
00:16:45,470 --> 00:16:39,839
can't fly

448
00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:45,480
um or even below a thousand feet in in a

449
00:16:49,730 --> 00:16:47,759
populated area like that

450
00:16:53,210 --> 00:16:49,740
um how are you doing it without making

451
00:16:54,650 --> 00:16:53,220
any sound and having a huge craft and

452
00:16:57,290 --> 00:16:54,660
then even Frank's talked about in his

453
00:16:59,329 --> 00:16:57,300
show sometimes it's the wide end of the

454
00:17:02,389 --> 00:16:59,339
triangle that's facing forward and the

455
00:17:04,669 --> 00:17:02,399
points facing out so that doesn't jive

456
00:17:06,770 --> 00:17:04,679
with with anything that's aerodynamic so

457
00:17:09,110 --> 00:17:06,780
there's no aerodynamics to it at all

458
00:17:10,970 --> 00:17:09,120
that would lend itself to creating lift

459
00:17:13,010 --> 00:17:10,980
so

460
00:17:15,409 --> 00:17:13,020
yeah one of one of your comments uh in

461
00:17:16,429 --> 00:17:15,419
the chat size from where in a farm says

462
00:17:17,630 --> 00:17:16,439
you know there's another big scene on

463
00:17:19,010 --> 00:17:17,640
the ground

464
00:17:20,090 --> 00:17:19,020
um I'm sure David Mullins actually been

465
00:17:21,890 --> 00:17:20,100
asked about that before because he's

466
00:17:23,569 --> 00:17:21,900
also the authority on these things and

467
00:17:25,309 --> 00:17:23,579
I'm sure he said that there weren't any

468
00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:25,319
reports of them on the ground either so

469
00:17:28,730 --> 00:17:26,880
again that's a good point you know are

470
00:17:30,710 --> 00:17:28,740
they just Airborne all the time

471
00:17:32,210 --> 00:17:30,720
um is it that just popping in From

472
00:17:34,190 --> 00:17:32,220
Another Dimension and popping out again

473
00:17:36,289 --> 00:17:34,200
oh are they traveling businesses or

474
00:17:37,549 --> 00:17:36,299
whatever how they're getting here

475
00:17:39,289 --> 00:17:37,559
um or they're traveling through time

476
00:17:41,210 --> 00:17:39,299
because there's a that's another thing

477
00:17:42,470 --> 00:17:41,220
that um especially when you come to orbs

478
00:17:44,090 --> 00:17:42,480
as well people are saying you know are

479
00:17:46,130 --> 00:17:44,100
they some kind of remote viewing device

480
00:17:47,870 --> 00:17:46,140
uh from the future

481
00:17:49,610 --> 00:17:47,880
um so you know there's all these kind of

482
00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:49,620
things that crop up in terms of people's

483
00:17:55,010 --> 00:17:52,559
theories but really theories are like um

484
00:17:57,169 --> 00:17:55,020
you know everybody's got one

485
00:17:59,510 --> 00:17:57,179
yeah well those are those are all those

486
00:18:01,190 --> 00:17:59,520
theories are good actually what

487
00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:01,200
Christopher Mellon says when when people

488
00:18:07,070 --> 00:18:03,600
ask him this question is he starts to

489
00:18:09,169 --> 00:18:07,080
talk about betting down a craft so he's

490
00:18:10,789 --> 00:18:09,179
talking about what does it take to bed

491
00:18:12,770 --> 00:18:10,799
down an aircraft first of all you have

492
00:18:15,169 --> 00:18:12,780
to make an approach to somewhere you

493
00:18:18,529 --> 00:18:15,179
have to land to somewhere there is a

494
00:18:21,289 --> 00:18:18,539
giant Logistics apparatus to recover to

495
00:18:23,450 --> 00:18:21,299
house and to maintain that aircraft and

496
00:18:24,770 --> 00:18:23,460
the size of some of these triangles the

497
00:18:26,750 --> 00:18:24,780
size of the hanger if you've ever seen a

498
00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:26,760
blimp hanger before I've seen him in

499
00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:29,760
SoCal they're absolutely enormous so you

500
00:18:35,210 --> 00:18:32,640
have to have something a giant apparatus

501
00:18:38,029 --> 00:18:35,220
to be able to not only

502
00:18:40,190 --> 00:18:38,039
um not only to to to uh bed down the

503
00:18:42,650 --> 00:18:40,200
aircraft to get something big enough to

504
00:18:44,330 --> 00:18:42,660
be able to hey Keith Taylor is in the

505
00:18:46,130 --> 00:18:44,340
house he's one of our future guests I'll

506
00:18:48,110 --> 00:18:46,140
tell you guys about Keith Taylor in a

507
00:18:50,029 --> 00:18:48,120
second

508
00:18:52,070 --> 00:18:50,039
um and and then be able to get it inside

509
00:18:53,990 --> 00:18:52,080
a hanger so that it's out of sight it's

510
00:18:56,090 --> 00:18:54,000
out of it's hidden from satellites and

511
00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:56,100
spying eyes and all these so that's what

512
00:18:59,810 --> 00:18:57,840
Christopher Mellon talks about and I I

513
00:19:01,490 --> 00:18:59,820
agree because I know that side of it I

514
00:19:03,470 --> 00:19:01,500
was before I even was flying I was

515
00:19:05,270 --> 00:19:03,480
aircraft maintenance for eight years so

516
00:19:07,250 --> 00:19:05,280
you're gonna have a giant group of

517
00:19:08,930 --> 00:19:07,260
people that's that's looking after this

518
00:19:10,909 --> 00:19:08,940
craft and that's why that one doesn't

519
00:19:12,890 --> 00:19:10,919
have a lot of legs all those other

520
00:19:15,409 --> 00:19:12,900
hypothesis that you just posited to

521
00:19:17,870 --> 00:19:15,419
resonate with me any of them dimensional

522
00:19:20,090 --> 00:19:17,880
you know appearing and and and then

523
00:19:22,010 --> 00:19:20,100
disappearing and all these sorts of

524
00:19:23,810 --> 00:19:22,020
things well just the size of them is

525
00:19:25,250 --> 00:19:23,820
huge isn't it some of them are quite are

526
00:19:26,630 --> 00:19:25,260
reported to be quite small but there's

527
00:19:28,850 --> 00:19:26,640
I'm sure I've heard them describe the

528
00:19:31,730 --> 00:19:28,860
size of football fields uh if not bigger

529
00:19:33,110 --> 00:19:31,740
so you'd have to have a huge yeah you

530
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:33,120
would you would have to have a huge

531
00:19:37,909 --> 00:19:35,760
hunger or a kind of your a bloop shed

532
00:19:39,890 --> 00:19:37,919
wouldn't you like an Airship shed to

533
00:19:41,150 --> 00:19:39,900
hide these things away

534
00:19:43,310 --> 00:19:41,160
um and they're gonna stick out like a

535
00:19:45,110 --> 00:19:43,320
sore thumb so even just the fact that

536
00:19:46,430 --> 00:19:45,120
they're being constructed uh somewhere

537
00:19:48,590 --> 00:19:46,440
unless they're hidden out you're in the

538
00:19:49,730 --> 00:19:48,600
desert somewhere or or wherever you're

539
00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:49,740
not going to be able to construct like a

540
00:19:53,930 --> 00:19:51,360
similar in Britain for let's say because

541
00:19:56,150 --> 00:19:53,940
we don't have enough kind of remote land

542
00:19:57,950 --> 00:19:56,160
in this country to be able to put one of

543
00:19:59,930 --> 00:19:57,960
those things kind of things together uh

544
00:20:01,610 --> 00:19:59,940
and surely people would notice if things

545
00:20:03,130 --> 00:20:01,620
like that start to spring up on in the

546
00:20:06,590 --> 00:20:03,140
countryside

547
00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:06,600
like the one that uh Dr Clark and

548
00:20:10,909 --> 00:20:08,640
Company and and Vinnie you know like

549
00:20:13,130 --> 00:20:10,919
that like hey what the hell's that thing

550
00:20:14,930 --> 00:20:13,140
anyway let me turn it over to money

551
00:20:16,430 --> 00:20:14,940
Nathan before I get too far out of hand

552
00:20:19,090 --> 00:20:16,440
but let me just say is welcome Keith

553
00:20:21,950 --> 00:20:19,100
Taylor Keith Taylor is the uh former

554
00:20:23,870 --> 00:20:21,960
NYPD uh man he's had so many different

555
00:20:27,169 --> 00:20:23,880
roles including SWAT but he's a

556
00:20:28,850 --> 00:20:27,179
professor at uh John Jay College uh in

557
00:20:32,029 --> 00:20:28,860
New York City which is a famous criminal

558
00:20:33,470 --> 00:20:32,039
justice University and I don't know he

559
00:20:34,610 --> 00:20:33,480
has so many accolades I can't name them

560
00:20:36,590 --> 00:20:34,620
all here but he's gonna be coming along

561
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:36,600
with us because he's very interested to

562
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:39,120
get law enforcement slash First

563
00:20:44,750 --> 00:20:42,960
Responders trained on how to react when

564
00:20:47,390 --> 00:20:44,760
they get her UFO report he feels like

565
00:20:49,010 --> 00:20:47,400
they're getting called out to these um

566
00:20:50,510 --> 00:20:49,020
you know on these calls and they don't

567
00:20:52,430 --> 00:20:50,520
know what what to do when they get there

568
00:20:54,710 --> 00:20:52,440
because they haven't been trained well

569
00:20:56,630 --> 00:20:54,720
he he's got something for that anyway

570
00:20:58,310 --> 00:20:56,640
let me turn it over to money Nathan yeah

571
00:21:00,289 --> 00:20:58,320
it's super important stuff

572
00:21:02,750 --> 00:21:00,299
um the other things that about the black

573
00:21:04,909 --> 00:21:02,760
triangle and we talked about uh you know

574
00:21:06,590 --> 00:21:04,919
kind of their non-standard

575
00:21:09,650 --> 00:21:06,600
characteristics right well that kind of

576
00:21:11,690 --> 00:21:09,660
makes you think of anti-gravidics where

577
00:21:14,990 --> 00:21:11,700
you don't need traditional airfoil

578
00:21:16,549 --> 00:21:15,000
design to be aerodynamic uh when you

579
00:21:18,289 --> 00:21:16,559
introduce something like anti-gravidic

580
00:21:20,270 --> 00:21:18,299
technology I mean you kind of

581
00:21:23,930 --> 00:21:20,280
potentially open up the field to a lot

582
00:21:25,970 --> 00:21:23,940
of other speculative uh

583
00:21:27,770 --> 00:21:25,980
you know Avenues right so it doesn't

584
00:21:30,590 --> 00:21:27,780
necessarily need to be housed in a

585
00:21:32,090 --> 00:21:30,600
hangar maybe you can you know fly it

586
00:21:34,130 --> 00:21:32,100
into the ocean maybe there's a you know

587
00:21:35,990 --> 00:21:34,140
some sort of Base down there there's a

588
00:21:38,149 --> 00:21:36,000
lot of ocean right so if they can get in

589
00:21:40,210 --> 00:21:38,159
and out of these mediums without any

590
00:21:42,289 --> 00:21:40,220
sort of disturbance because of that

591
00:21:44,690 --> 00:21:42,299
anti-gravidic technology or mass

592
00:21:46,250 --> 00:21:44,700
displacement or whatever and that opens

593
00:21:48,890 --> 00:21:46,260
up a whole new you know sort of ball

594
00:21:50,090 --> 00:21:48,900
game and we mentioned Terry Loveless and

595
00:21:53,210 --> 00:21:50,100
that's the only case actually I'm

596
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:53,220
thinking of where he indicates that it

597
00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:54,960
did land I mean there was that initial

598
00:21:58,490 --> 00:21:56,640
sort of he talks about that kind of like

599
00:22:01,430 --> 00:21:58,500
the beam or the laser points that kind

600
00:22:03,350 --> 00:22:01,440
of painted their their campsite but then

601
00:22:05,690 --> 00:22:03,360
when he was waking up and looked outside

602
00:22:08,270 --> 00:22:05,700
of the tent it seemed as if there were

603
00:22:11,690 --> 00:22:08,280
you know beings on the ground outside

604
00:22:14,090 --> 00:22:11,700
that were entering or exiting the craft

605
00:22:16,330 --> 00:22:14,100
itself so that may be the one incident

606
00:22:19,370 --> 00:22:16,340
that I can think of of a black triangle

607
00:22:21,770 --> 00:22:19,380
sighting and potentially being you know

608
00:22:23,390 --> 00:22:21,780
on the ground

609
00:22:25,250 --> 00:22:23,400
yeah and then all the people inside

610
00:22:26,870 --> 00:22:25,260
which was really scary when he talked

611
00:22:28,850 --> 00:22:26,880
about scared children I think that

612
00:22:31,190 --> 00:22:28,860
chilled all of us sure and a mixture of

613
00:22:33,710 --> 00:22:31,200
people right he mentioned seeing uh what

614
00:22:36,950 --> 00:22:33,720
appeared to be uh military personnel

615
00:22:39,130 --> 00:22:36,960
human beings in addition to non-human

616
00:22:42,230 --> 00:22:39,140
beings so some sort of collaborative

617
00:22:45,230 --> 00:22:42,240
effort between humans and other entities

618
00:22:47,029 --> 00:22:45,240
uh so a lot of speculation there of

619
00:22:48,830 --> 00:22:47,039
course um speaking of speculation I

620
00:22:49,850 --> 00:22:48,840
wanted to get you know Graham we're

621
00:22:51,529 --> 00:22:49,860
going to talk about a lot of things on

622
00:22:54,169 --> 00:22:51,539
the show it's kind of bounced around at

623
00:22:56,990 --> 00:22:54,179
different things but since it's so fresh

624
00:22:59,210 --> 00:22:57,000
I wanted to get your take on the NASA

625
00:23:02,270 --> 00:22:59,220
UAP panel and briefing that happened

626
00:23:04,070 --> 00:23:02,280
this week as a historian uh when you

627
00:23:06,110 --> 00:23:04,080
hear things like Sean Kirkpatrick saying

628
00:23:08,210 --> 00:23:06,120
about these orbs these metallic spheres

629
00:23:09,470 --> 00:23:08,220
being cited all around the world I'm

630
00:23:11,690 --> 00:23:09,480
sure you're going yeah let me tell you

631
00:23:14,210 --> 00:23:11,700
more about that so what tell us about

632
00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:14,220
about those kinds of sightings in the

633
00:23:19,310 --> 00:23:16,320
historical record how far back did I go

634
00:23:21,169 --> 00:23:19,320
well that's just like uh well he's

635
00:23:23,029 --> 00:23:21,179
saying that you know having NASA

636
00:23:24,830 --> 00:23:23,039
briefings like that even if it was just

637
00:23:27,529 --> 00:23:24,840
some kind of preamble to a briefing or

638
00:23:29,090 --> 00:23:27,539
preamble to a study is nothing short of

639
00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:29,100
miraculous because you wouldn't have you

640
00:23:34,070 --> 00:23:31,440
know if anybody had said 10 20 30 years

641
00:23:35,510 --> 00:23:34,080
ago that we were going to have this kind

642
00:23:38,090 --> 00:23:35,520
of thing

643
00:23:40,370 --> 00:23:38,100
um with you know NASA scientists and

644
00:23:42,409 --> 00:23:40,380
other Specialists and people from you

645
00:23:44,750 --> 00:23:42,419
know connected with or part of the dod

646
00:23:47,029 --> 00:23:44,760
on a public forum like that and being

647
00:23:48,710 --> 00:23:47,039
televised live and news channels around

648
00:23:50,510 --> 00:23:48,720
the world picking it all up you know you

649
00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:50,520
would think of your nuts because you

650
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:52,080
just wouldn't have predicted that then

651
00:23:56,270 --> 00:23:53,520
again you wouldn't have projected 2017

652
00:23:57,710 --> 00:23:56,280
either so but it's it's amazing from a

653
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:57,720
historical point of view as to what

654
00:24:02,149 --> 00:23:59,760
hasn't happened and what is happening

655
00:24:03,409 --> 00:24:02,159
now so let's get that out of the way to

656
00:24:05,029 --> 00:24:03,419
start with

657
00:24:06,289 --> 00:24:05,039
um and in terms of orbs yeah I mean

658
00:24:08,570 --> 00:24:06,299
there's been some discussion on UFO

659
00:24:11,690 --> 00:24:08,580
Twitter this morning about um the 1944

660
00:24:13,730 --> 00:24:11,700
sightings and uh Marek Von renkamp had

661
00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:13,740
um you know posted the the copy of the

662
00:24:18,230 --> 00:24:15,840
newspaper article talking about silver

663
00:24:20,210 --> 00:24:18,240
translucent spheres now that did

664
00:24:22,250 --> 00:24:20,220
actually appear in an American newspaper

665
00:24:23,630 --> 00:24:22,260
uh it was talking about certain

666
00:24:27,649 --> 00:24:23,640
sightings that were alleged to have

667
00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:27,659
happened in Western Europe in 1944 and

668
00:24:33,710 --> 00:24:30,840
that U.S Air Force Crews were seeing

669
00:24:35,810 --> 00:24:33,720
certain things now those spheres were

670
00:24:37,190 --> 00:24:35,820
seen in the daytime uh the things that

671
00:24:38,870 --> 00:24:37,200
were seen at night about around about

672
00:24:40,730 --> 00:24:38,880
the same time and actually a lot earlier

673
00:24:43,190 --> 00:24:40,740
if you read the Foo Fighters book that I

674
00:24:45,590 --> 00:24:43,200
wrote uh UFOs before Roswell it comes

675
00:24:47,330 --> 00:24:45,600
clear that this kind of thing in terms

676
00:24:50,330 --> 00:24:47,340
of lights in the sky that followed

677
00:24:52,909 --> 00:24:50,340
aircraft or were just seen happened a

678
00:24:55,610 --> 00:24:52,919
long time much earlier than sort of

679
00:24:58,190 --> 00:24:55,620
October well actually November 1944 when

680
00:25:01,549 --> 00:24:58,200
the what people term Foo Fighters

681
00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:01,559
started as a phenomenon you can trace

682
00:25:06,890 --> 00:25:04,080
some of the sightings that are in detail

683
00:25:09,430 --> 00:25:06,900
back as early as say August 1942 in

684
00:25:12,470 --> 00:25:09,440
terms of the RAF sightings but actually

685
00:25:14,149 --> 00:25:12,480
there are hints and then more definite

686
00:25:16,610 --> 00:25:14,159
information in terms of intelligence

687
00:25:18,110 --> 00:25:16,620
files that I've looked at which

688
00:25:20,090 --> 00:25:18,120
hopefully I'm going to write a sequel to

689
00:25:21,850 --> 00:25:20,100
that book at some stage or publish it

690
00:25:29,750 --> 00:25:21,860
which

691
00:25:31,789 --> 00:25:29,760
about

692
00:25:34,370 --> 00:25:31,799
um strange lights following airplanes

693
00:25:37,070 --> 00:25:34,380
following our bombers over Germany for

694
00:25:39,230 --> 00:25:37,080
distances up to 250 miles in some some

695
00:25:41,930 --> 00:25:39,240
instances so you know there's things

696
00:25:43,909 --> 00:25:41,940
going on back then the people you know

697
00:25:45,470 --> 00:25:43,919
should maybe think well look this has

698
00:25:46,909 --> 00:25:45,480
gone a lot further back than you know

699
00:25:48,409 --> 00:25:46,919
the kind of established wisdom if you

700
00:25:50,149 --> 00:25:48,419
like and I'm still trying to get my head

701
00:25:51,529 --> 00:25:50,159
around a lot of the stuff and what it

702
00:25:53,630 --> 00:25:51,539
implies

703
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:53,640
um it's not the case of these are German

704
00:25:56,750 --> 00:25:54,960
Knight Fighters because Actually March

705
00:25:58,310 --> 00:25:56,760
19 40 years before the first German

706
00:26:00,470 --> 00:25:58,320
Knight fighter unit was set up during

707
00:26:02,269 --> 00:26:00,480
the second world war so it's not as if

708
00:26:04,250 --> 00:26:02,279
these are you know sort of aircraft

709
00:26:06,409 --> 00:26:04,260
chasing after the bombers but for some

710
00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:06,419
reason not shooting them down so yeah uh

711
00:26:10,610 --> 00:26:08,880
Nathan that's a long-winded answer to

712
00:26:12,409 --> 00:26:10,620
your question there it goes a lot

713
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:12,419
further back and from a historian's

714
00:26:16,789 --> 00:26:14,640
point of view the stuff that simply

715
00:26:18,230 --> 00:26:16,799
hasn't you know sort of seen the light

716
00:26:19,490 --> 00:26:18,240
of day yet

717
00:26:20,690 --> 00:26:19,500
um and then probably one of the few

718
00:26:22,669 --> 00:26:20,700
people who's actually going through this

719
00:26:24,649 --> 00:26:22,679
information to try and sort out you know

720
00:26:26,870 --> 00:26:24,659
what it actually means and I'm still not

721
00:26:28,789 --> 00:26:26,880
entirely sure either at this stage I

722
00:26:30,769 --> 00:26:28,799
don't have a kind of handle on what the

723
00:26:32,810 --> 00:26:30,779
Foo Fighters were or the things you know

724
00:26:34,070 --> 00:26:32,820
that happened before that I just I use

725
00:26:35,930 --> 00:26:34,080
that term to cover the whole of World

726
00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:35,940
War II but

727
00:26:40,310 --> 00:26:38,640
um no it's a it's a real mystery and how

728
00:26:41,810 --> 00:26:40,320
they fit in with later sightings so

729
00:26:43,370 --> 00:26:41,820
you're kind of Tylenol and the stuff

730
00:26:46,250 --> 00:26:43,380
that comes afterwards

731
00:26:48,049 --> 00:26:46,260
um again I'm in the dark as well

732
00:26:50,510 --> 00:26:48,059
you know what's very interesting about

733
00:26:52,610 --> 00:26:50,520
this Graham is that the thoughts of

734
00:26:55,130 --> 00:26:52,620
those men

735
00:26:56,990 --> 00:26:55,140
um that were flying those craft in in 42

736
00:27:01,010 --> 00:26:57,000
when they're seeing these and looking at

737
00:27:04,190 --> 00:27:01,020
it and being as perplexed and amazed and

738
00:27:06,169 --> 00:27:04,200
and wanting of of an understanding of

739
00:27:07,850 --> 00:27:06,179
what this is that's flying near them is

740
00:27:10,370 --> 00:27:07,860
there and some you know something that's

741
00:27:13,130 --> 00:27:10,380
spitting oil out of a piston pushing you

742
00:27:15,830 --> 00:27:13,140
know B-25 or something right

743
00:27:17,710 --> 00:27:15,840
um and today somebody you know either

744
00:27:19,909 --> 00:27:17,720
Ryan Graves had the exact same question

745
00:27:22,610 --> 00:27:19,919
decades later and even someone who's

746
00:27:24,470 --> 00:27:22,620
flying a fifth gen F-35 that's that's

747
00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:24,480
encountering these has the exact same

748
00:27:29,450 --> 00:27:27,840
question and they're no they're not a

749
00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:29,460
whole lot closer to An Answer they're

750
00:27:33,470 --> 00:27:31,919
just like you know Intel selling us they

751
00:27:35,029 --> 00:27:33,480
don't know what these things are that's

752
00:27:36,590 --> 00:27:35,039
true and some of these some of these

753
00:27:38,330 --> 00:27:36,600
crewmen were interviewed you know years

754
00:27:40,490 --> 00:27:38,340
after the event uh they're talking about

755
00:27:41,690 --> 00:27:40,500
the 1980s when it was still alive and

756
00:27:44,090 --> 00:27:41,700
they had no there were no further

757
00:27:46,190 --> 00:27:44,100
afforders to what they were and and you

758
00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:46,200
know really some of the sightings

759
00:27:50,690 --> 00:27:48,000
reported actually gone up the food chain

760
00:27:52,370 --> 00:27:50,700
in terms of the of the the ladder to

761
00:27:53,750 --> 00:27:52,380
various stats and and intelligence

762
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:53,760
agencies

763
00:27:56,930 --> 00:27:55,440
um but then that heard nothing you know

764
00:27:58,250 --> 00:27:56,940
back because obviously that's not the

765
00:27:59,750 --> 00:27:58,260
way it works you know you send

766
00:28:01,789 --> 00:27:59,760
information up you probably know this as

767
00:28:03,409 --> 00:28:01,799
well as anybody DJ you say it you'll you

768
00:28:04,909 --> 00:28:03,419
send information up at the food chain in

769
00:28:07,010 --> 00:28:04,919
the military but it never comes back

770
00:28:08,990 --> 00:28:07,020
down to you so what the answers are

771
00:28:10,850 --> 00:28:09,000
um so you know you can understand why

772
00:28:13,610 --> 00:28:10,860
why they never heard anything back but

773
00:28:14,930 --> 00:28:13,620
in post-war years as well they may have

774
00:28:16,430 --> 00:28:14,940
thought well you know we might get the

775
00:28:17,930 --> 00:28:16,440
answers of some stage

776
00:28:19,250 --> 00:28:17,940
um and yet you know there were four you

777
00:28:20,450 --> 00:28:19,260
know 40 years on kind of thing and

778
00:28:22,190 --> 00:28:20,460
people were still asking the same

779
00:28:23,870 --> 00:28:22,200
questions albeit about different things

780
00:28:26,210 --> 00:28:23,880
because obviously time had moved on and

781
00:28:27,890 --> 00:28:26,220
the objects had changed and so it wasn't

782
00:28:29,990 --> 00:28:27,900
like lights in the sky anymore and it

783
00:28:32,149 --> 00:28:30,000
wasn't you know sort of silver balls it

784
00:28:33,710 --> 00:28:32,159
was disc shaped objects you know cigar

785
00:28:35,570 --> 00:28:33,720
shaped objects well what we probably

786
00:28:36,950 --> 00:28:35,580
call Tic Tacs nowadays

787
00:28:38,570 --> 00:28:36,960
um you know that was that was the name

788
00:28:40,370 --> 00:28:38,580
back then that was the name I remember

789
00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:40,380
from reading books in the 70s was

790
00:28:44,090 --> 00:28:42,720
cigar-shaped objects

791
00:28:46,870 --> 00:28:44,100
um you know and that probably means

792
00:28:48,890 --> 00:28:46,880
torpedo shaped as well because things

793
00:28:50,210 --> 00:28:48,900
we're seeing during World War II they're

794
00:28:52,610 --> 00:28:50,220
actually in their intelligence reports

795
00:28:55,070 --> 00:28:52,620
so again you've got this you know what

796
00:28:57,110 --> 00:28:55,080
goes around comes around the things that

797
00:28:58,549 --> 00:28:57,120
were seen then there might be slightly

798
00:29:00,769 --> 00:28:58,559
different in terms of terminology and

799
00:29:03,230 --> 00:29:00,779
maybe even the way they operate but

800
00:29:09,590 --> 00:29:03,240
still the same shapes that keep cropping

801
00:29:12,710 --> 00:29:11,210
um if you delve deeper in the reports

802
00:29:14,210 --> 00:29:12,720
and there must be thousands of Squadron

803
00:29:15,230 --> 00:29:14,220
uh reports that I still haven't looked

804
00:29:16,669 --> 00:29:15,240
at yet

805
00:29:18,710 --> 00:29:16,679
um and maybe ones that just never got

806
00:29:20,810 --> 00:29:18,720
reported I guess if you're you could get

807
00:29:22,250 --> 00:29:20,820
a hold of all that information and see

808
00:29:24,350 --> 00:29:22,260
what the kind of you know the major

809
00:29:26,389 --> 00:29:24,360
types were I bet would find more you

810
00:29:28,250 --> 00:29:26,399
know kind of these Torpedoes would find

811
00:29:30,769 --> 00:29:28,260
more of these orbs in these you know

812
00:29:32,269 --> 00:29:30,779
translucent silver spheres and no doubt

813
00:29:34,190 --> 00:29:32,279
we'd probably find some more triangles

814
00:29:36,710 --> 00:29:34,200
as well because that one report in

815
00:29:38,810 --> 00:29:36,720
January 44 I don't think that must be in

816
00:29:41,269 --> 00:29:38,820
isolation there must be others

817
00:29:43,669 --> 00:29:41,279
oh I like that there's more out there in

818
00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:43,679
terms of the types of craft well two

819
00:29:48,110 --> 00:29:46,080
things that made me think uh when you're

820
00:29:50,630 --> 00:29:48,120
speaking one is that one of the reasons

821
00:29:52,250 --> 00:29:50,640
that information you know uh reported

822
00:29:55,549 --> 00:29:52,260
Intel goes up and doesn't come back with

823
00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:55,559
answers is because as Jim Simon van says

824
00:29:59,750 --> 00:29:57,840
they don't have the answers they don't

825
00:30:01,549 --> 00:29:59,760
have an answer to it and the other thing

826
00:30:04,789 --> 00:30:01,559
else matters is in the house good

827
00:30:06,889 --> 00:30:04,799
morning Smothers uh and the other the

828
00:30:09,470 --> 00:30:06,899
other one and what Nathan would say is

829
00:30:11,990 --> 00:30:09,480
that in the Arc of time

830
00:30:13,850 --> 00:30:12,000
um is so that we're basically the the

831
00:30:15,529 --> 00:30:13,860
amount of time between World War II and

832
00:30:18,649 --> 00:30:15,539
now and the Arc of time is like the same

833
00:30:20,210 --> 00:30:18,659
grain of sand you know so we haven't you

834
00:30:22,010 --> 00:30:20,220
know we we think of it as a long time

835
00:30:24,350 --> 00:30:22,020
ago but the Arc of time it's really

836
00:30:26,510 --> 00:30:24,360
nothing and really lights and lights in

837
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:26,520
the sky following aircraft you know that

838
00:30:29,690 --> 00:30:28,080
that continued that happened to the

839
00:30:31,370 --> 00:30:29,700
Korean War it happened you know

840
00:30:33,769 --> 00:30:31,380
afterwards as well

841
00:30:35,330 --> 00:30:33,779
um your correspondent we're in a farm he

842
00:30:37,370 --> 00:30:35,340
mentions about the Australian case of a

843
00:30:41,169 --> 00:30:37,380
foo fighter in the 1950s it's actually a

844
00:30:46,490 --> 00:30:44,389
and it was a royal Australian Navy uh

845
00:30:48,409 --> 00:30:46,500
pilot who went on to Vietnam uh you know

846
00:30:49,549 --> 00:30:48,419
a fairly High um kind of ranking

847
00:30:51,049 --> 00:30:49,559
official

848
00:30:51,710 --> 00:30:51,059
um as a I think it was Natasha or

849
00:30:52,970 --> 00:30:51,720
something like that I can't remember

850
00:30:54,710 --> 00:30:52,980
exactly know

851
00:30:56,210 --> 00:30:54,720
um but you know that could have been a

852
00:30:57,769 --> 00:30:56,220
foo fighter case if that had happened in

853
00:31:00,889 --> 00:30:57,779
World War II because of how it

854
00:31:03,230 --> 00:31:00,899
transpired and there are other cases in

855
00:31:05,870 --> 00:31:03,240
the 50s and 60s where airliners were you

856
00:31:07,430 --> 00:31:05,880
know either pursued or had um lights

857
00:31:09,950 --> 00:31:07,440
parallel to their wing tips and all the

858
00:31:11,330 --> 00:31:09,960
rest of it so and those if those had

859
00:31:13,850 --> 00:31:11,340
happened during World War II they would

860
00:31:16,310 --> 00:31:13,860
have been Foo Fighter cases as well

861
00:31:18,889 --> 00:31:16,320
and thank you thank you for that that uh

862
00:31:22,250 --> 00:31:18,899
contribution we're on a farm so let's uh

863
00:31:24,710 --> 00:31:22,260
just to uh to shift over to Frank uh I'd

864
00:31:27,889 --> 00:31:24,720
like to get Frank to just give his take

865
00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:27,899
on the uh the hearings because uh as he

866
00:31:32,750 --> 00:31:29,760
likes to say he let it stew for a little

867
00:31:34,970 --> 00:31:32,760
bit he's let it marinate now now he

868
00:31:36,350 --> 00:31:34,980
started to throw it on the grill uh and

869
00:31:39,110 --> 00:31:36,360
then after that you know I'm sure Frank

870
00:31:41,690 --> 00:31:39,120
you'll have a question for Graham

871
00:31:42,950 --> 00:31:41,700
yeah sure thanks and yeah I'm still

872
00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:42,960
letting it to do to be honest with you

873
00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:44,640
this is one that's taken its time to

874
00:31:48,830 --> 00:31:46,080
marinade it's going to be one of those

875
00:31:50,330 --> 00:31:48,840
that's uh for the the perfect tenderness

876
00:31:51,370 --> 00:31:50,340
I think it's gonna have to sit for a few

877
00:31:53,690 --> 00:31:51,380
more days

878
00:31:56,029 --> 00:31:53,700
yeah there's a lot there's a lot to

879
00:31:58,430 --> 00:31:56,039
consider with it but I think you know

880
00:32:00,830 --> 00:31:58,440
there's obviously a lot of different

881
00:32:02,510 --> 00:32:00,840
opinions about how things are

882
00:32:04,549 --> 00:32:02,520
progressing with this NASA study and I

883
00:32:06,830 --> 00:32:04,559
suppose you could say can Kirkpatrick's

884
00:32:07,970 --> 00:32:06,840
actual leadership of the arrow office as

885
00:32:10,250 --> 00:32:07,980
well and I think there's some

886
00:32:11,870 --> 00:32:10,260
similarities there some people are

887
00:32:13,610 --> 00:32:11,880
really positive about it and other

888
00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:13,620
people are really critical about the way

889
00:32:18,830 --> 00:32:16,080
things are playing out and as as usual

890
00:32:20,389 --> 00:32:18,840
with these things I think you know the

891
00:32:21,830 --> 00:32:20,399
truth probably some sort of somewhere in

892
00:32:23,810 --> 00:32:21,840
between there's always going to be sort

893
00:32:25,610 --> 00:32:23,820
of extremes of thought in either in

894
00:32:29,090 --> 00:32:25,620
either direction

895
00:32:30,889 --> 00:32:29,100
um my initials Inc with the the NASA

896
00:32:34,730 --> 00:32:30,899
presentations and whatnot the other day

897
00:32:36,830 --> 00:32:34,740
was to see on BBC News not only a story

898
00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:36,840
about this and taking it relatively

899
00:32:41,389 --> 00:32:39,120
seriously but an actual breaking news

900
00:32:43,130 --> 00:32:41,399
page with live updates throughout the

901
00:32:46,850 --> 00:32:43,140
day which I've never seen that before

902
00:32:49,190 --> 00:32:46,860
for a UFO related you know the story

903
00:32:51,110 --> 00:32:49,200
that's come out through the BBC for well

904
00:32:54,049 --> 00:32:51,120
as long as I can remember so that has

905
00:32:55,909 --> 00:32:54,059
got to be good and the discussion was no

906
00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:55,919
X-Files music in sight or anything like

907
00:32:59,149 --> 00:32:57,600
that it was just like this is what is

908
00:33:00,889 --> 00:32:59,159
being said and these are the people who

909
00:33:02,330 --> 00:33:00,899
are saying it and that's that's really

910
00:33:04,370 --> 00:33:02,340
good to see

911
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:04,380
um but having said all of that I do

912
00:33:09,529 --> 00:33:06,720
really understand people's frustration

913
00:33:11,570 --> 00:33:09,539
with both of those which is I think are

914
00:33:13,250 --> 00:33:11,580
sort of similar in the way that people

915
00:33:15,889 --> 00:33:13,260
are getting frustrated with them which

916
00:33:18,049 --> 00:33:15,899
is the NASA investigations and also the

917
00:33:19,490 --> 00:33:18,059
way that arrow is being run

918
00:33:21,110 --> 00:33:19,500
um I was talking to Dave about this

919
00:33:23,330 --> 00:33:21,120
quite a bit over the last week

920
00:33:26,930 --> 00:33:23,340
and I came up with this analogy of

921
00:33:29,630 --> 00:33:26,940
somebody sat on a filing cabinet full of

922
00:33:31,250 --> 00:33:29,640
very important information and the

923
00:33:33,409 --> 00:33:31,260
public wanting answers about that very

924
00:33:35,090 --> 00:33:33,419
topic and they go okay yeah we'll commit

925
00:33:37,490 --> 00:33:35,100
to finding where this information is

926
00:33:39,230 --> 00:33:37,500
being kept and really to a lot of people

927
00:33:41,029 --> 00:33:39,240
from the outside it's glaringly obvious

928
00:33:42,529 --> 00:33:41,039
that it's in the drawers right

929
00:33:44,810 --> 00:33:42,539
underneath where you're at this very

930
00:33:46,789 --> 00:33:44,820
moment like you know and and it does

931
00:33:48,889 --> 00:33:46,799
feel like that I mean since I've been

932
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:48,899
looking into the UFO topic you know

933
00:33:52,009 --> 00:33:50,640
relative newcomer compared to many

934
00:33:54,230 --> 00:33:52,019
people I've been looking into this

935
00:33:56,269 --> 00:33:54,240
pretty deeply for a few years now but it

936
00:33:57,889 --> 00:33:56,279
becomes quite clear that the best places

937
00:33:59,210 --> 00:33:57,899
to look if you had access to anything

938
00:34:00,769 --> 00:33:59,220
you wanted and you wanted the best

939
00:34:02,690 --> 00:34:00,779
information to get to the bottom of this

940
00:34:06,889 --> 00:34:02,700
topic you would go to probably two

941
00:34:10,129 --> 00:34:06,899
places the the US government military IC

942
00:34:11,810 --> 00:34:10,139
databases that have got all the sensor

943
00:34:13,190 --> 00:34:11,820
systems feeding into it and all the rest

944
00:34:16,430 --> 00:34:13,200
of it from over the last however many

945
00:34:18,950 --> 00:34:16,440
years and NASA you know and these are

946
00:34:20,629 --> 00:34:18,960
the very two places that these two

947
00:34:22,970 --> 00:34:20,639
efforts that I've been talking about are

948
00:34:24,950 --> 00:34:22,980
they taste so you can sort of understand

949
00:34:26,570 --> 00:34:24,960
the frustration there that things are

950
00:34:28,250 --> 00:34:26,580
playing out very very slowly and it's

951
00:34:29,869 --> 00:34:28,260
all kind of you know a trickle-down

952
00:34:31,129 --> 00:34:29,879
effects kind of thing as as we're going

953
00:34:32,329 --> 00:34:31,139
along

954
00:34:34,609 --> 00:34:32,339
um but yeah what do you reckon about

955
00:34:36,050 --> 00:34:34,619
that gray and where do you sit on on how

956
00:34:38,510 --> 00:34:36,060
all this is playing out do you think

957
00:34:40,609 --> 00:34:38,520
it's uh are you positive about it what

958
00:34:42,770 --> 00:34:40,619
do you reckon and positive that it's

959
00:34:45,589 --> 00:34:42,780
actually you know more than we had 10

960
00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:45,599
years ago and further back so that's a

961
00:34:49,609 --> 00:34:48,240
start and I guess you're not going to

962
00:34:51,230 --> 00:34:49,619
expect that everything's just going to

963
00:34:53,450 --> 00:34:51,240
get put out there go right yet we don't

964
00:34:55,430 --> 00:34:53,460
know what's going on it would be nice if

965
00:34:58,070 --> 00:34:55,440
they did show some truly anomalous

966
00:35:00,770 --> 00:34:58,080
footage rather than you know three

967
00:35:02,390 --> 00:35:00,780
lights uh equidistant um you know from

968
00:35:03,829 --> 00:35:02,400
each other and then say oh these are

969
00:35:05,570 --> 00:35:03,839
commercial aircraft

970
00:35:07,430 --> 00:35:05,580
um was it me or is it like very strange

971
00:35:08,630 --> 00:35:07,440
the word looked exactly the same

972
00:35:09,710 --> 00:35:08,640
distance from each other the one in the

973
00:35:11,630 --> 00:35:09,720
middle

974
00:35:13,250 --> 00:35:11,640
um that it was one of these kind of low

975
00:35:14,450 --> 00:35:13,260
hanging fruit things I think that you

976
00:35:16,010 --> 00:35:14,460
know you pick something that can be

977
00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:16,020
written off quite easily whether it's

978
00:35:19,849 --> 00:35:17,760
true or not to you know what they say

979
00:35:21,410 --> 00:35:19,859
about what it was and then that just

980
00:35:22,910 --> 00:35:21,420
kind of slows down in people's head

981
00:35:24,050 --> 00:35:22,920
because then that's a job done they

982
00:35:25,550 --> 00:35:24,060
don't have to come out and say look this

983
00:35:26,870 --> 00:35:25,560
is definitely not something all they've

984
00:35:29,270 --> 00:35:26,880
got to do is just you know cast enough

985
00:35:31,370 --> 00:35:29,280
doubt and then that basically tinges

986
00:35:33,290 --> 00:35:31,380
everything else that they talk about

987
00:35:34,849 --> 00:35:33,300
um you know so it's it's quite

988
00:35:36,170 --> 00:35:34,859
surreptitious in a way of the way they

989
00:35:38,630 --> 00:35:36,180
come out with this this kind of thing

990
00:35:40,130 --> 00:35:38,640
and that's me being cynical

991
00:35:41,990 --> 00:35:40,140
um because then they go on to then

992
00:35:44,990 --> 00:35:42,000
dismiss one of the kind of the

993
00:35:47,810 --> 00:35:45,000
groundbreaking you know three videos

994
00:35:50,569 --> 00:35:47,820
that came out in December 2017. uh the

995
00:35:52,609 --> 00:35:50,579
go fast and then they're suggesting it

996
00:35:54,109 --> 00:35:52,619
well sort of go faster go slow because

997
00:35:55,670 --> 00:35:54,119
when you do they reckon it's only doing

998
00:35:57,410 --> 00:35:55,680
40 miles an hour

999
00:35:58,609 --> 00:35:57,420
um now I'm not entirely sure of the of

1000
00:36:00,829 --> 00:35:58,619
the mass of it because I'm your math

1001
00:36:02,450 --> 00:36:00,839
Wizard and I haven't been able to like

1002
00:36:04,130 --> 00:36:02,460
kind of check the figures and I'm going

1003
00:36:05,990 --> 00:36:04,140
from what other people say on this as

1004
00:36:08,569 --> 00:36:06,000
well that it's not necessarily the case

1005
00:36:11,870 --> 00:36:08,579
that that was the figure and that maybe

1006
00:36:14,030 --> 00:36:11,880
assume a certain set of variables which

1007
00:36:16,010 --> 00:36:14,040
may not or may or may not be true again

1008
00:36:17,030 --> 00:36:16,020
I'm not entirely sure about that I'm not

1009
00:36:18,170 --> 00:36:17,040
an expert

1010
00:36:21,050 --> 00:36:18,180
but

1011
00:36:23,750 --> 00:36:21,060
the one that they should show is gimbal

1012
00:36:25,490 --> 00:36:23,760
because gimbal looks it's one of those

1013
00:36:26,930 --> 00:36:25,500
that certainly made me set up and take

1014
00:36:28,849 --> 00:36:26,940
notes

1015
00:36:30,230 --> 00:36:28,859
um why doesn't it make them do the same

1016
00:36:32,150 --> 00:36:30,240
why aren't they putting that up and

1017
00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:32,160
saying okay we don't know what this is

1018
00:36:36,770 --> 00:36:35,040
you know it might have a purely sort of

1019
00:36:38,510 --> 00:36:36,780
mundane explanation and there may be

1020
00:36:40,849 --> 00:36:38,520
some truth behind what other people are

1021
00:36:43,490 --> 00:36:40,859
saying that it is I don't necessarily

1022
00:36:46,670 --> 00:36:43,500
believe that myself but you know you

1023
00:36:49,130 --> 00:36:46,680
can't rule it out 100 but at the same

1024
00:36:51,290 --> 00:36:49,140
time it just looks so strange and the

1025
00:36:53,210 --> 00:36:51,300
way it flies the way it turns and when

1026
00:36:54,530 --> 00:36:53,220
you hear the audio track about going

1027
00:36:58,190 --> 00:36:54,540
against the wind and all this kind of

1028
00:36:59,810 --> 00:36:58,200
stuff that it it's the most anomalous of

1029
00:37:02,150 --> 00:36:59,820
the recent footage as far as I'm

1030
00:37:04,790 --> 00:37:02,160
concerned and therefore why shouldn't it

1031
00:37:06,650 --> 00:37:04,800
be put up front and center in a huge

1032
00:37:09,230 --> 00:37:06,660
presentation like that where there's a

1033
00:37:11,690 --> 00:37:09,240
lot riding on it for them just to own up

1034
00:37:13,849 --> 00:37:11,700
and say we don't know what this is

1035
00:37:15,050 --> 00:37:13,859
because that would go a long way to

1036
00:37:17,150 --> 00:37:15,060
actually address a lot of people's

1037
00:37:18,589 --> 00:37:17,160
concerns that NASA

1038
00:37:21,950 --> 00:37:18,599
um and everybody else by extension

1039
00:37:23,990 --> 00:37:21,960
aren't necessarily 100 behind what

1040
00:37:26,630 --> 00:37:24,000
they're doing you know is it's just a

1041
00:37:28,970 --> 00:37:26,640
kind of you know um a a kind of lip

1042
00:37:30,829 --> 00:37:28,980
service to to people's concerns and

1043
00:37:33,829 --> 00:37:30,839
fears and quests from the truth and all

1044
00:37:35,630 --> 00:37:33,839
the rest of it so is it a case of you

1045
00:37:36,950 --> 00:37:35,640
know they drew they dread some footage

1046
00:37:38,690 --> 00:37:36,960
out where maybe not many people have

1047
00:37:40,310 --> 00:37:38,700
seen it before it's fairly easily

1048
00:37:41,630 --> 00:37:40,320
explainable but they can predict present

1049
00:37:42,890 --> 00:37:41,640
it as

1050
00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:42,900
um you know sort of something which is a

1051
00:37:46,430 --> 00:37:44,640
bit of a mystery and then say oh well

1052
00:37:48,890 --> 00:37:46,440
this is really what it is and everybody

1053
00:37:51,349 --> 00:37:48,900
goes well okay just nods the head and

1054
00:37:53,329 --> 00:37:51,359
then they will use that that kind of

1055
00:37:54,650 --> 00:37:53,339
knowledge will then tinge everything

1056
00:37:56,810 --> 00:37:54,660
else that come out with afterwards

1057
00:37:58,550 --> 00:37:56,820
because if that's written off nice and

1058
00:37:59,510 --> 00:37:58,560
easily then pretty much everyone else

1059
00:38:02,150 --> 00:37:59,520
could be as well because that's how

1060
00:38:04,130 --> 00:38:02,160
people think so um you know we're not

1061
00:38:05,690 --> 00:38:04,140
talking about people who look inhabit

1062
00:38:06,770 --> 00:38:05,700
UFO Twitter here

1063
00:38:09,890 --> 00:38:06,780
um we're talking about general public

1064
00:38:12,410 --> 00:38:09,900
watching this presentation so you know

1065
00:38:13,730 --> 00:38:12,420
you can see how it's dressed up

1066
00:38:15,109 --> 00:38:13,740
um and then you get a lot of people

1067
00:38:16,849 --> 00:38:15,119
coming on and they've got quite nice

1068
00:38:18,650 --> 00:38:16,859
titles and they're called to be quite

1069
00:38:20,569 --> 00:38:18,660
authoritative and people are got a lot

1070
00:38:22,790 --> 00:38:20,579
of respect probably in the scientific

1071
00:38:24,410 --> 00:38:22,800
scientific Community

1072
00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:24,420
um so yeah people are going to listen to

1073
00:38:28,490 --> 00:38:26,640
what they say now does that mean to say

1074
00:38:31,190 --> 00:38:28,500
they're experts and UFOs well no because

1075
00:38:32,810 --> 00:38:31,200
nobody's an expert at UFOs

1076
00:38:36,710 --> 00:38:32,820
um but

1077
00:38:38,450 --> 00:38:36,720
wow they they do just show this stuff

1078
00:38:40,670 --> 00:38:38,460
that is easily explainable but they

1079
00:38:42,589 --> 00:38:40,680
don't show the stuff that is truly you

1080
00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:42,599
know remarkable and I think they'll be

1081
00:38:46,370 --> 00:38:44,640
much better served every time they have

1082
00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:46,380
one of these it's just putting gimbal up

1083
00:38:51,230 --> 00:38:48,480
every time and saying do we know what

1084
00:38:52,609 --> 00:38:51,240
this is yet and if they don't then go

1085
00:38:54,170 --> 00:38:52,619
away and come back again and the next

1086
00:38:55,730 --> 00:38:54,180
time they put one of these up put it up

1087
00:38:56,690 --> 00:38:55,740
again and say do we know what this is

1088
00:38:58,190 --> 00:38:56,700
yet

1089
00:38:59,450 --> 00:38:58,200
um and that would I think in my eyes

1090
00:39:01,190 --> 00:38:59,460
would give them a lot more Credence

1091
00:39:04,310 --> 00:39:01,200
because they would be looking at

1092
00:39:07,370 --> 00:39:04,320
something truly you know abnormal

1093
00:39:08,870 --> 00:39:07,380
yeah I think it's um it's kind of a

1094
00:39:10,609 --> 00:39:08,880
worrying sign for anybody who's

1095
00:39:13,190 --> 00:39:10,619
interested in this topic and really

1096
00:39:14,990 --> 00:39:13,200
wants answers as well when the majority

1097
00:39:16,849 --> 00:39:15,000
of clips that are shown seem to be

1098
00:39:20,089 --> 00:39:16,859
selected because they have mundane

1099
00:39:23,089 --> 00:39:20,099
explanations like there's a these these

1100
00:39:25,490 --> 00:39:23,099
efforts uh are underway because of the

1101
00:39:27,230 --> 00:39:25,500
clear public interest in this topic I

1102
00:39:29,150 --> 00:39:27,240
mean if you look at like Joe Rogan's

1103
00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:29,160
interviews with various UFO related

1104
00:39:33,230 --> 00:39:31,200
people and the movies that come out

1105
00:39:34,490 --> 00:39:33,240
there's clearly a massive audience for

1106
00:39:37,250 --> 00:39:34,500
this because people are really

1107
00:39:39,589 --> 00:39:37,260
interested in it so then why if if

1108
00:39:41,210 --> 00:39:39,599
that's clear and that is driving these

1109
00:39:42,650 --> 00:39:41,220
efforts at the moment that are going on

1110
00:39:45,109 --> 00:39:42,660
whether it be NASA or Arrow or whatever

1111
00:39:47,450 --> 00:39:45,119
it might be why then would you choose

1112
00:39:49,010 --> 00:39:47,460
the most mundane videos you can find to

1113
00:39:51,050 --> 00:39:49,020
show because there are there are ones

1114
00:39:53,150 --> 00:39:51,060
like Graham said gimbal you know even

1115
00:39:55,069 --> 00:39:53,160
presenting the Nimitz case that are

1116
00:39:56,870 --> 00:39:55,079
clearly already publicly available

1117
00:39:58,310 --> 00:39:56,880
there's nothing classified there they're

1118
00:40:00,410 --> 00:39:58,320
already on the internet why not talk

1119
00:40:02,150 --> 00:40:00,420
about those and point towards them as

1120
00:40:03,710 --> 00:40:02,160
being a clear example of why we should

1121
00:40:05,390 --> 00:40:03,720
be taking this seriously but the ones

1122
00:40:07,250 --> 00:40:05,400
that ended up getting trotted out are

1123
00:40:09,230 --> 00:40:07,260
the boring ones that that you know could

1124
00:40:11,089 --> 00:40:09,240
have other explanations and there's even

1125
00:40:12,890 --> 00:40:11,099
a question there I suppose as to have

1126
00:40:15,050 --> 00:40:12,900
they been selected because they have

1127
00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:15,060
mundane explanations and they want

1128
00:40:17,870 --> 00:40:16,560
people to get all excited about it and

1129
00:40:20,030 --> 00:40:17,880
then a couple of months down the line

1130
00:40:22,910 --> 00:40:20,040
they can reveal that the prosaic

1131
00:40:24,770 --> 00:40:22,920
explanation but it also made me think as

1132
00:40:27,170 --> 00:40:24,780
well and this is what I was wanting to

1133
00:40:30,950 --> 00:40:27,180
ask ask you Graham as well with your

1134
00:40:32,329 --> 00:40:30,960
um historians knowledge of the UFO topic

1135
00:40:34,970 --> 00:40:32,339
um I pulled this quote up just to make

1136
00:40:38,750 --> 00:40:34,980
sure I got it right a major a major

1137
00:40:40,849 --> 00:40:38,760
major General John a Samford in 1952 and

1138
00:40:43,069 --> 00:40:40,859
said quote there have been a certain

1139
00:40:44,450 --> 00:40:43,079
percentage of this volume of reports

1140
00:40:46,550 --> 00:40:44,460
that have been made by credible

1141
00:40:48,950 --> 00:40:46,560
observers of relatively incredible

1142
00:40:51,170 --> 00:40:48,960
things is this group of observations

1143
00:40:53,390 --> 00:40:51,180
that we are now attempting to resolve

1144
00:40:56,450 --> 00:40:53,400
unquote obviously a well-known kind of

1145
00:41:00,349 --> 00:40:56,460
quote all the way from back in 1952 and

1146
00:41:02,569 --> 00:41:00,359
then Dr Sean Kirkpatrick 2023 quote only

1147
00:41:03,950 --> 00:41:02,579
a very small percentage of UAP reports

1148
00:41:05,930 --> 00:41:03,960
display signatures that could be

1149
00:41:07,609 --> 00:41:05,940
reasonably described as anomalous for

1150
00:41:09,170 --> 00:41:07,619
the few objects that do demonstrate

1151
00:41:10,970 --> 00:41:09,180
potentially anomalous characteristics

1152
00:41:12,710 --> 00:41:10,980
arrow is approaching these cases with

1153
00:41:15,470 --> 00:41:12,720
the highest level of objectivity and

1154
00:41:16,849 --> 00:41:15,480
analytic rigor Encore very similar even

1155
00:41:18,349 --> 00:41:16,859
though the word is slightly differently

1156
00:41:19,370 --> 00:41:18,359
they're basically getting to the same

1157
00:41:20,750 --> 00:41:19,380
point you know there's a small

1158
00:41:22,849 --> 00:41:20,760
percentage that are really interesting

1159
00:41:25,730 --> 00:41:22,859
and we're looking into it but you know

1160
00:41:27,770 --> 00:41:25,740
these are how many years is that I think

1161
00:41:29,630 --> 00:41:27,780
the years apart I think that's something

1162
00:41:31,790 --> 00:41:29,640
they're not saying though to add to

1163
00:41:34,370 --> 00:41:31,800
those quotes because if you look at the

1164
00:41:36,230 --> 00:41:34,380
Blue Book Special Report number 14 which

1165
00:41:37,490 --> 00:41:36,240
came along in months in 1955 it was

1166
00:41:40,130 --> 00:41:37,500
released

1167
00:41:42,890 --> 00:41:40,140
um and I'm building up to it in except

1168
00:41:44,450 --> 00:41:42,900
identify they did the same kind of thing

1169
00:41:46,550 --> 00:41:44,460
where they said look you know we can

1170
00:41:48,710 --> 00:41:46,560
explain a vast majority of all these

1171
00:41:50,270 --> 00:41:48,720
cases to a certain degree

1172
00:41:52,849 --> 00:41:50,280
um but the thing what they did they did

1173
00:41:55,970 --> 00:41:52,859
say in that report was we can probably

1174
00:41:57,410 --> 00:41:55,980
explain the others the unknown if we had

1175
00:41:59,390 --> 00:41:57,420
more information

1176
00:42:02,030 --> 00:41:59,400
and that'll be the bit that they're not

1177
00:42:03,770 --> 00:42:02,040
saying here it's because you know that's

1178
00:42:05,569 --> 00:42:03,780
what they're looking for and you can see

1179
00:42:08,569 --> 00:42:05,579
that you know arrow and everybody has

1180
00:42:10,130 --> 00:42:08,579
gone before them they're they are to a

1181
00:42:12,230 --> 00:42:10,140
point confused about the the sightings

1182
00:42:14,510 --> 00:42:12,240
that don't make any sense but there will

1183
00:42:16,730 --> 00:42:14,520
be this kind of you know sort of

1184
00:42:18,530 --> 00:42:16,740
background of if we only had more

1185
00:42:20,569 --> 00:42:18,540
information we'd be able to say what

1186
00:42:21,770 --> 00:42:20,579
these were as well and that's what we

1187
00:42:22,970 --> 00:42:21,780
obviously think as well but we're

1188
00:42:24,589 --> 00:42:22,980
looking at from a different point of

1189
00:42:26,329 --> 00:42:24,599
view where where we think that there

1190
00:42:28,069 --> 00:42:26,339
might be something else to it but from

1191
00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:28,079
the scientist point of view you know if

1192
00:42:31,010 --> 00:42:29,760
they've got an unknown that all they

1193
00:42:32,930 --> 00:42:31,020
want to do is narrow it down to

1194
00:42:33,950 --> 00:42:32,940
something because uh it just means that

1195
00:42:35,630 --> 00:42:33,960
they've got they haven't got the

1196
00:42:37,790 --> 00:42:35,640
information to do that and I think

1197
00:42:40,550 --> 00:42:37,800
that's the unspoken thing here I think

1198
00:42:41,990 --> 00:42:40,560
if you pin if you have a pin arrow down

1199
00:42:43,790 --> 00:42:42,000
and maybe some of these other people the

1200
00:42:45,650 --> 00:42:43,800
experts especially those two experts

1201
00:42:48,050 --> 00:42:45,660
that trotted off for the um was the

1202
00:42:49,250 --> 00:42:48,060
Congress uh thing last year

1203
00:42:50,690 --> 00:42:49,260
um you know because they had a similar

1204
00:42:53,150 --> 00:42:50,700
thing where they had all these kind of

1205
00:42:54,770 --> 00:42:53,160
explainable footage up there

1206
00:42:57,230 --> 00:42:54,780
um you know they show the so-called two

1207
00:43:01,069 --> 00:42:57,240
experts and I think you know the the

1208
00:43:02,809 --> 00:43:01,079
kind of like their sort of opinion I

1209
00:43:04,250 --> 00:43:02,819
think might well be you know I might not

1210
00:43:06,050 --> 00:43:04,260
be right here but I think their opinion

1211
00:43:08,089 --> 00:43:06,060
is probably if we had more information

1212
00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:08,099
we'll be able to see what these things

1213
00:43:12,589 --> 00:43:09,839
were as well and they'd turn out be

1214
00:43:14,930 --> 00:43:12,599
mundane and it's a it's a it's a

1215
00:43:16,550 --> 00:43:14,940
Robinson panel version 2.0 because

1216
00:43:18,950 --> 00:43:16,560
they're

1217
00:43:20,870 --> 00:43:18,960
um your recommendations came along with

1218
00:43:22,970 --> 00:43:20,880
the same things you know all you want to

1219
00:43:24,490 --> 00:43:22,980
do is educate the public show them what

1220
00:43:26,750 --> 00:43:24,500
they're looking at show them the

1221
00:43:28,790 --> 00:43:26,760
misidentifying things that are just

1222
00:43:30,349 --> 00:43:28,800
ordinary and mundane so they're seeing

1223
00:43:33,890 --> 00:43:30,359
aircraft that you know they think you

1224
00:43:35,450 --> 00:43:33,900
know UFOs or something else etc etc

1225
00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:35,460
um you know the Blue Book Special Report

1226
00:43:40,069 --> 00:43:38,640
uh 14 had a similar kind of underlying

1227
00:43:41,809 --> 00:43:40,079
theme to it that there was just you know

1228
00:43:44,150 --> 00:43:41,819
things that were being seen that were

1229
00:43:46,130 --> 00:43:44,160
misidentifications or were just you know

1230
00:43:47,809 --> 00:43:46,140
mundane objects anyway

1231
00:43:50,450 --> 00:43:47,819
um and I'm pretty sure you know there's

1232
00:43:52,910 --> 00:43:50,460
a bit of that thinking here as well

1233
00:43:55,370 --> 00:43:52,920
um because do we know what you know Sean

1234
00:43:56,870 --> 00:43:55,380
Kirkpatrick's feelings are about UFOs

1235
00:43:59,210 --> 00:43:56,880
has he had said anything about them

1236
00:44:00,890 --> 00:43:59,220
before he was picked for this you know

1237
00:44:02,450 --> 00:44:00,900
do we know what he's kind of you know

1238
00:44:04,550 --> 00:44:02,460
his histories in terms of where the

1239
00:44:06,890 --> 00:44:04,560
phenomenon does the other has he had any

1240
00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:06,900
public stance on it beforehand

1241
00:44:12,890 --> 00:44:11,280
um when Eustis and scientists that would

1242
00:44:15,170 --> 00:44:12,900
get interviewed in the 70s and 80s about

1243
00:44:17,270 --> 00:44:15,180
this kind of thing

1244
00:44:20,150 --> 00:44:17,280
um that or people who spoke on the space

1245
00:44:22,490 --> 00:44:20,160
topics such as Sir Patrick Murray in in

1246
00:44:24,589 --> 00:44:22,500
Britain who used to hold uh host the sky

1247
00:44:26,390 --> 00:44:24,599
at night when you were asked about this

1248
00:44:28,190 --> 00:44:26,400
kind of thing they would say oh you know

1249
00:44:29,930 --> 00:44:28,200
there's nothing to it

1250
00:44:32,510 --> 00:44:29,940
um it's just people misidentifying

1251
00:44:34,130 --> 00:44:32,520
things yes space is Advanced there could

1252
00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:34,140
be other civilizations out there but

1253
00:44:38,809 --> 00:44:37,200
they've never visited here so you've got

1254
00:44:42,050 --> 00:44:38,819
to get past all that before you get to

1255
00:44:44,329 --> 00:44:42,060
people who have a truly open mind

1256
00:44:46,250 --> 00:44:44,339
um that might be entirely wrong you know

1257
00:44:47,870 --> 00:44:46,260
it could be something that they do have

1258
00:44:49,910 --> 00:44:47,880
a Minds that they are willing to

1259
00:44:52,450 --> 00:44:49,920
entertain all kinds of suggestions but I

1260
00:44:54,589 --> 00:44:52,460
just have this sneaking suspicion that

1261
00:44:56,270 --> 00:44:54,599
really when it comes down to it they're

1262
00:44:58,910 --> 00:44:56,280
just looking for more information that

1263
00:45:01,430 --> 00:44:58,920
when they get it we'll say these things

1264
00:45:04,130 --> 00:45:01,440
are just you know misidentifications of

1265
00:45:06,170 --> 00:45:04,140
ordinary objects there's they haven't

1266
00:45:08,390 --> 00:45:06,180
built up the trust with you you don't

1267
00:45:11,150 --> 00:45:08,400
you don't have that trust and I'm not

1268
00:45:12,950 --> 00:45:11,160
I'm not suspicious anyway it's totally

1269
00:45:15,410 --> 00:45:12,960
understandable I mean everything that

1270
00:45:17,329 --> 00:45:15,420
that they've done is consistent with hey

1271
00:45:18,770 --> 00:45:17,339
don't trust them because even if they

1272
00:45:20,450 --> 00:45:18,780
did get answers they're going to house

1273
00:45:22,309 --> 00:45:20,460
that information Silo it and you won't

1274
00:45:24,470 --> 00:45:22,319
get it what it what I would say though

1275
00:45:26,510 --> 00:45:24,480
and sort of answer to I've had this

1276
00:45:30,290 --> 00:45:26,520
conversation with Frank and maybe with

1277
00:45:32,270 --> 00:45:30,300
Nathan but uh I've said rhetorically how

1278
00:45:35,510 --> 00:45:32,280
many hours do you think they spent going

1279
00:45:38,030 --> 00:45:35,520
over videos and selecting very specific

1280
00:45:40,250 --> 00:45:38,040
videos for each one of these engagements

1281
00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:40,260
with the public I could guarantee you

1282
00:45:44,930 --> 00:45:42,240
they've probably had hours of meetings

1283
00:45:47,809 --> 00:45:44,940
about this and probably went over you

1284
00:45:50,270 --> 00:45:47,819
know a couple of dozen different ones

1285
00:45:52,790 --> 00:45:50,280
and the reason that they've chosen the

1286
00:45:54,710 --> 00:45:52,800
ones they have are very specific so in

1287
00:45:57,170 --> 00:45:54,720
order to understand why they chose then

1288
00:46:00,530 --> 00:45:57,180
you have to leave your your perspective

1289
00:46:02,930 --> 00:46:00,540
and go to their perspective and say my

1290
00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:02,940
objective as DJ or Graham or Nathan or

1291
00:46:06,710 --> 00:46:04,560
Frank is that I want to understand

1292
00:46:08,809 --> 00:46:06,720
what's going on and I want a clear

1293
00:46:10,250 --> 00:46:08,819
picture of the best stuff that we're

1294
00:46:13,069 --> 00:46:10,260
looking at visually that they've

1295
00:46:14,750 --> 00:46:13,079
captured so I can get a sense of of what

1296
00:46:18,530 --> 00:46:14,760
this craft is and what its capability is

1297
00:46:21,470 --> 00:46:18,540
their objective is not that for for our

1298
00:46:23,690 --> 00:46:21,480
purp their objective is to give you just

1299
00:46:26,210 --> 00:46:23,700
enough to say that we're showing good

1300
00:46:28,309 --> 00:46:26,220
faith on this topic but we're going to

1301
00:46:29,329 --> 00:46:28,319
give you something that's ambiguous and

1302
00:46:32,569 --> 00:46:29,339
refutable

1303
00:46:34,190 --> 00:46:32,579
if you look at them they chose what I

1304
00:46:36,890 --> 00:46:34,200
think is one of the most amazing videos

1305
00:46:39,530 --> 00:46:36,900
I've ever seen in this topic is the

1306
00:46:42,290 --> 00:46:39,540
Jeremy Corbell pyramid video not

1307
00:46:44,930 --> 00:46:42,300
triangle but pyramid video and they know

1308
00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:44,940
that that has been widely disputed

1309
00:46:50,210 --> 00:46:47,760
debunked not believed

1310
00:46:52,430 --> 00:46:50,220
um and that if you were to go over if

1311
00:46:54,109 --> 00:46:52,440
you were to take the whole of the UFO

1312
00:46:56,450 --> 00:46:54,119
Community you would be at least

1313
00:46:58,970 --> 00:46:56,460
three-fourths on the side that says this

1314
00:47:00,829 --> 00:46:58,980
is nothing it's a it's a and a to do

1315
00:47:02,329 --> 00:47:00,839
with the aperture of the device they

1316
00:47:04,309 --> 00:47:02,339
were looking at through Etc are the

1317
00:47:06,290 --> 00:47:04,319
camera et cetera et cetera et cetera so

1318
00:47:10,670 --> 00:47:06,300
so they picked that one they picked the

1319
00:47:12,829 --> 00:47:10,680
one where they kept having to ask uh uh

1320
00:47:14,510 --> 00:47:12,839
um I can remember during the hearings

1321
00:47:16,309 --> 00:47:14,520
hey can you rewind let me see that again

1322
00:47:18,770 --> 00:47:16,319
it's going past the cockpit too quickly

1323
00:47:20,510 --> 00:47:18,780
you can't see anything so everyone then

1324
00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:20,520
the the one this time with those three

1325
00:47:23,870 --> 00:47:22,319
objects it's like wait what are they

1326
00:47:26,750 --> 00:47:23,880
doing here I I don't even know what I'm

1327
00:47:28,670 --> 00:47:26,760
looking at so all of those were chosen

1328
00:47:30,890 --> 00:47:28,680
the only one that was decent was the one

1329
00:47:33,349 --> 00:47:30,900
that you talked about with the uh the

1330
00:47:35,809 --> 00:47:33,359
metallic orb which is really interesting

1331
00:47:37,730 --> 00:47:35,819
because uh it was picked up on rain and

1332
00:47:39,650 --> 00:47:37,740
it means when he says metallic it's

1333
00:47:41,930 --> 00:47:39,660
picked up on radar that's good because

1334
00:47:44,150 --> 00:47:41,940
sometimes what if it's just an orb of

1335
00:47:46,430 --> 00:47:44,160
light but but a radar sweep is not able

1336
00:47:49,190 --> 00:47:46,440
to capture that so you you know you have

1337
00:47:52,250 --> 00:47:49,200
some corroborative uh sensor data there

1338
00:47:55,250 --> 00:47:52,260
in terms of uh uh a radar

1339
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:55,260
so their objective is not to give you

1340
00:48:00,290 --> 00:47:57,599
exactly what would make all of us look

1341
00:48:02,750 --> 00:48:00,300
at it and say oh that's clearly an

1342
00:48:04,609 --> 00:48:02,760
anomalous craft that's doing something

1343
00:48:06,230 --> 00:48:04,619
that we don't see airplanes do so man

1344
00:48:08,510 --> 00:48:06,240
this is like and the government's given

1345
00:48:10,010 --> 00:48:08,520
it to me so I know it's legit that's not

1346
00:48:12,170 --> 00:48:10,020
what they're that's not their objective

1347
00:48:15,109 --> 00:48:12,180
their objective is to give you just

1348
00:48:17,210 --> 00:48:15,119
enough to keep good faith and slowly

1349
00:48:19,430 --> 00:48:17,220
slowly Nathan talked about this on

1350
00:48:21,770 --> 00:48:19,440
liminal frames for those of you who want

1351
00:48:24,589 --> 00:48:21,780
to um uh go go back and listen to he and

1352
00:48:26,630 --> 00:48:24,599
EXO they're going to slowly drip this

1353
00:48:29,030 --> 00:48:26,640
out until more and more people are

1354
00:48:31,250 --> 00:48:29,040
talking about it at the water cooler Etc

1355
00:48:32,690 --> 00:48:31,260
so anyway that's that's what they're

1356
00:48:35,089 --> 00:48:32,700
trying to do which is different than

1357
00:48:37,730 --> 00:48:35,099
what we want so we're we're misaligned

1358
00:48:40,490 --> 00:48:37,740
in what our goals are

1359
00:48:42,650 --> 00:48:40,500
so anyway I just want to throw this out

1360
00:48:45,770 --> 00:48:42,660
there we got about 10 minutes left 12

1361
00:48:49,130 --> 00:48:45,780
minutes left so if I want to go around

1362
00:48:51,770 --> 00:48:49,140
the horn with uh anything that uh people

1363
00:48:55,569 --> 00:48:51,780
want to consider etc etc starting with

1364
00:49:01,609 --> 00:49:00,050
thank you sir uh yeah I mean uh okay so

1365
00:49:02,990 --> 00:49:01,619
I I know we're gonna go around the horn

1366
00:49:04,309 --> 00:49:03,000
I want to give us some brief thoughts on

1367
00:49:05,990 --> 00:49:04,319
just what we just what we talked about

1368
00:49:08,450 --> 00:49:06,000
with the NASA thing and because I know

1369
00:49:11,510 --> 00:49:08,460
it is it's such a Hot Topic

1370
00:49:15,530 --> 00:49:11,520
um I I like it I think it's good I think

1371
00:49:18,950 --> 00:49:15,540
we we need uh dry boring rigorous

1372
00:49:20,809 --> 00:49:18,960
science to be taking this seriously and

1373
00:49:23,030 --> 00:49:20,819
as much as those of us in the community

1374
00:49:24,890 --> 00:49:23,040
that you know we can bemoan this and and

1375
00:49:27,650 --> 00:49:24,900
hate that it's not going as fast as we

1376
00:49:29,990 --> 00:49:27,660
might like we need those serious

1377
00:49:31,430 --> 00:49:30,000
academics to enter into the conversation

1378
00:49:34,250 --> 00:49:31,440
and they're only going to enter into the

1379
00:49:36,470 --> 00:49:34,260
conversation if they can do it in this

1380
00:49:39,770 --> 00:49:36,480
very methodical slow

1381
00:49:42,410 --> 00:49:39,780
you know bore you to sleep process

1382
00:49:44,990 --> 00:49:42,420
um because that that's how they approach

1383
00:49:46,849 --> 00:49:45,000
science generally and and in this topic

1384
00:49:48,050 --> 00:49:46,859
in particular has such a stigma on it

1385
00:49:50,329 --> 00:49:48,060
they talked about stigma at the

1386
00:49:52,309 --> 00:49:50,339
beginning of the entire panel their

1387
00:49:53,990 --> 00:49:52,319
entire careers or their uh their

1388
00:49:56,630 --> 00:49:54,000
disciplines have a tremendous amount of

1389
00:49:58,250 --> 00:49:56,640
stigma even preventing them from taking

1390
00:49:59,630 --> 00:49:58,260
it seriously so

1391
00:50:01,069 --> 00:49:59,640
the fact that they're there the fact

1392
00:50:03,290 --> 00:50:01,079
that they're willing to look at this and

1393
00:50:04,670 --> 00:50:03,300
and not play The X-Files music and I

1394
00:50:06,710 --> 00:50:04,680
know I'm sure some of them are having

1395
00:50:08,690 --> 00:50:06,720
the Snicker Factor about it even if they

1396
00:50:10,309 --> 00:50:08,700
aren't saying that publicly they still

1397
00:50:11,930 --> 00:50:10,319
privately think oh my gosh you know I

1398
00:50:15,410 --> 00:50:11,940
have to look at this stupid UFO stuff

1399
00:50:18,050 --> 00:50:15,420
all that said is the the benefit of it I

1400
00:50:22,430 --> 00:50:18,060
think is that by by approaching it from

1401
00:50:24,589 --> 00:50:22,440
that very uh stayed banal sort of

1402
00:50:25,910 --> 00:50:24,599
perspective eventually they're

1403
00:50:26,870 --> 00:50:25,920
confronted with something that they

1404
00:50:31,490 --> 00:50:26,880
cannot

1405
00:50:34,370 --> 00:50:31,500
anymore so if they've if they've applied

1406
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:34,380
every degree of scientific rigor toward

1407
00:50:39,589 --> 00:50:36,960
an anomalous event as Kirkpatrick

1408
00:50:42,470 --> 00:50:39,599
alluded to that very small percentage of

1409
00:50:45,349 --> 00:50:42,480
of events that have good data and are

1410
00:50:47,930 --> 00:50:45,359
seemingly performing in anomalous ways

1411
00:50:49,790 --> 00:50:47,940
those are the cases that that you cannot

1412
00:50:51,290 --> 00:50:49,800
ignore and that's what we would want as

1413
00:50:53,510 --> 00:50:51,300
the public we would want them to be able

1414
00:50:55,970 --> 00:50:53,520
to say yeah we've ruled out all this

1415
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:55,980
stuff we've done every single thing you

1416
00:51:00,770 --> 00:50:58,559
can possibly imagine to Discount and

1417
00:51:04,370 --> 00:51:00,780
write off whatever this encounter

1418
00:51:06,770 --> 00:51:04,380
happens to be and and and and we still

1419
00:51:08,450 --> 00:51:06,780
have no idea how it's doing what it is

1420
00:51:10,910 --> 00:51:08,460
doing and then that that tells you that

1421
00:51:14,030 --> 00:51:10,920
gives the public a sense of oh geez like

1422
00:51:15,470 --> 00:51:14,040
it's past every single scientific uh you

1423
00:51:17,990 --> 00:51:15,480
know process that we can throw at it

1424
00:51:21,230 --> 00:51:18,000
therefore it must be something that we

1425
00:51:23,450 --> 00:51:21,240
just do not understand uh and then that

1426
00:51:25,849 --> 00:51:23,460
leads to a whole host of other questions

1427
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:25,859
which follow the other thing I will say

1428
00:51:31,790 --> 00:51:29,040
is I I think it's it's really timely

1429
00:51:34,549 --> 00:51:31,800
that we have this NASA panel stood up

1430
00:51:37,069 --> 00:51:34,559
that we have this very public-facing

1431
00:51:39,890 --> 00:51:37,079
effort underway that's what we would

1432
00:51:42,650 --> 00:51:39,900
want to be in place before other bigger

1433
00:51:45,290 --> 00:51:42,660
kinds of Revelations might be

1434
00:51:46,370 --> 00:51:45,300
coming right we and here I'm just

1435
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:46,380
talking about the thing that Chris

1436
00:51:50,750 --> 00:51:48,000
Mellon said in Politico you know that

1437
00:51:53,270 --> 00:51:50,760
he's had very credible Witnesses on the

1438
00:51:55,970 --> 00:51:53,280
inside who he has referred to Congress

1439
00:51:58,130 --> 00:51:55,980
who he has referred to Arrow who have

1440
00:52:00,290 --> 00:51:58,140
indicated to him they have been working

1441
00:52:03,109 --> 00:52:00,300
on Crash retrieval and reverse

1442
00:52:04,970 --> 00:52:03,119
engineering projects so what happens if

1443
00:52:06,950 --> 00:52:04,980
we get more and more announcements like

1444
00:52:08,990 --> 00:52:06,960
that not just from the partisans like

1445
00:52:10,309 --> 00:52:09,000
Chris Mellon or Lou Elizondo the people

1446
00:52:12,410 --> 00:52:10,319
who've always been beating this drum

1447
00:52:14,630 --> 00:52:12,420
forever but from other names what

1448
00:52:16,549 --> 00:52:14,640
happens if we have that and then the

1449
00:52:18,829 --> 00:52:16,559
Public's like oh crap you know I hope we

1450
00:52:20,569 --> 00:52:18,839
have hope we have some some smart people

1451
00:52:22,730 --> 00:52:20,579
who are already thinking about this well

1452
00:52:25,010 --> 00:52:22,740
it turns out we do we have a whole panel

1453
00:52:26,390 --> 00:52:25,020
of smart people from NASA an

1454
00:52:28,430 --> 00:52:26,400
organization with an incredible

1455
00:52:30,770 --> 00:52:28,440
reputation not just in the United States

1456
00:52:33,170 --> 00:52:30,780
but around the world we've got a panel

1457
00:52:35,510 --> 00:52:33,180
of experts and fortunately they're here

1458
00:52:38,030 --> 00:52:35,520
to take a look at this and to take it

1459
00:52:40,130 --> 00:52:38,040
very seriously you would want that in

1460
00:52:43,089 --> 00:52:40,140
place as opposed to being hey here's a

1461
00:52:45,230 --> 00:52:43,099
massive Revelation from some

1462
00:52:47,270 --> 00:52:45,240
non-partisan people and then everybody

1463
00:52:49,190 --> 00:52:47,280
being flat-footed being like oh crap we

1464
00:52:50,630 --> 00:52:49,200
don't have anybody dedicated I guess

1465
00:52:53,210 --> 00:52:50,640
we're really behind the eight ball here

1466
00:52:54,950 --> 00:52:53,220
well no we do so the pieces are

1467
00:52:56,930 --> 00:52:54,960
improving the the pieces on the

1468
00:52:58,430 --> 00:52:56,940
chessboard are moving and they're in

1469
00:53:00,589 --> 00:52:58,440
place and I think that that's what we

1470
00:53:02,450 --> 00:53:00,599
want to see it is glacially slow and

1471
00:53:04,730 --> 00:53:02,460
it's annoying I know for all of us

1472
00:53:07,010 --> 00:53:04,740
who've been you know fans of this topic

1473
00:53:09,770 --> 00:53:07,020
forever but I would argue it has to be

1474
00:53:10,910 --> 00:53:09,780
and it has to roll out in this way for

1475
00:53:15,890 --> 00:53:10,920
the world

1476
00:53:17,930 --> 00:53:15,900
prepared for something as big of an

1477
00:53:19,430 --> 00:53:17,940
announcement as what we those of us on

1478
00:53:21,710 --> 00:53:19,440
the inside are you know who who have

1479
00:53:23,630 --> 00:53:21,720
been fans of this topic forever what we

1480
00:53:25,549 --> 00:53:23,640
think is is going to happen here

1481
00:53:28,970 --> 00:53:25,559
I just want to say I couldn't agree more

1482
00:53:31,970 --> 00:53:28,980
I think that well it's frustrating to

1483
00:53:34,309 --> 00:53:31,980
agree with that position but yes so

1484
00:53:37,010 --> 00:53:34,319
Frank uh to take it away on that that

1485
00:53:39,109 --> 00:53:37,020
topic and then it'll go to Graham

1486
00:53:40,730 --> 00:53:39,119
yeah I'll try and keep this relatively

1487
00:53:42,770 --> 00:53:40,740
brief because I could probably go off on

1488
00:53:46,549 --> 00:53:42,780
one in a few different directions here

1489
00:53:48,530 --> 00:53:46,559
but I think yeah I mean my my thinking

1490
00:53:50,030 --> 00:53:48,540
with it again going back to that kind of

1491
00:53:51,770 --> 00:53:50,040
frustration with the processes and

1492
00:53:53,270 --> 00:53:51,780
things like that I do agree Nathan with

1493
00:53:55,970 --> 00:53:53,280
what you're saying that it is definitely

1494
00:53:58,609 --> 00:53:55,980
good to have this kind of you know very

1495
00:53:59,809 --> 00:53:58,619
dry kind of scientific process there and

1496
00:54:01,549 --> 00:53:59,819
all the rest of it and the knock-on

1497
00:54:04,190 --> 00:54:01,559
effect of the way that ripples out into

1498
00:54:05,870 --> 00:54:04,200
you know the wider world as well it

1499
00:54:07,910 --> 00:54:05,880
definitely has you know a positive

1500
00:54:09,349 --> 00:54:07,920
impact in terms of you know spreading

1501
00:54:11,870 --> 00:54:09,359
the word about the topic and things like

1502
00:54:13,309 --> 00:54:11,880
that and all the rest of it but I think

1503
00:54:15,650 --> 00:54:13,319
again going back to the frustrations

1504
00:54:18,109 --> 00:54:15,660
thing is that we already kind of have

1505
00:54:20,210 --> 00:54:18,119
those cases or that case in my opinion

1506
00:54:21,950 --> 00:54:20,220
which is the Nimitz case you know in

1507
00:54:24,230 --> 00:54:21,960
terms of it's got pretty much everything

1508
00:54:25,970 --> 00:54:24,240
that you that you could want and if you

1509
00:54:28,010 --> 00:54:25,980
were going to do

1510
00:54:29,930 --> 00:54:28,020
um a rigorous scientific investigation

1511
00:54:31,490 --> 00:54:29,940
into this topic the first thing you

1512
00:54:34,849 --> 00:54:31,500
would do is go after the best case

1513
00:54:36,710 --> 00:54:34,859
that's got all of the data there and as

1514
00:54:38,690 --> 00:54:36,720
as Scott Bray said in the in the the

1515
00:54:41,329 --> 00:54:38,700
Congressional hearing they have actually

1516
00:54:43,370 --> 00:54:41,339
reviewed uh at least Scott Brady with

1517
00:54:45,170 --> 00:54:43,380
the UAP task force it's not clear how

1518
00:54:47,690 --> 00:54:45,180
much of that was passed across to shot

1519
00:54:49,190 --> 00:54:47,700
Patrick in his office but Scott Bray did

1520
00:54:51,109 --> 00:54:49,200
say that they'd reviewed the classified

1521
00:54:53,510 --> 00:54:51,119
data as well as the publicly available

1522
00:54:55,670 --> 00:54:53,520
data and all the witness testimony and

1523
00:54:58,010 --> 00:54:55,680
that case was still unidentified and

1524
00:55:00,109 --> 00:54:58,020
considered to be anomalous and if I was

1525
00:55:02,089 --> 00:55:00,119
doing a scientific investigation I'd

1526
00:55:03,829 --> 00:55:02,099
just go there I mean you know we say it

1527
00:55:05,510 --> 00:55:03,839
a lot don't we you only need one case to

1528
00:55:07,970 --> 00:55:05,520
be truly anomalous in order to make a

1529
00:55:10,309 --> 00:55:07,980
case for it you know and for me that's

1530
00:55:11,930 --> 00:55:10,319
the case and and that's where I would

1531
00:55:13,490 --> 00:55:11,940
like you know hear about Kirkpatrick

1532
00:55:15,710 --> 00:55:13,500
with arrow and everything like that and

1533
00:55:17,990 --> 00:55:15,720
not having the accesses that they need

1534
00:55:19,490 --> 00:55:18,000
to get to the ic's best center systems

1535
00:55:20,930 --> 00:55:19,500
and all the rest of it let's just do

1536
00:55:23,210 --> 00:55:20,940
that forget about all the rest of it

1537
00:55:25,069 --> 00:55:23,220
let's just go for that case and find

1538
00:55:27,170 --> 00:55:25,079
that data and even if you can't reveal

1539
00:55:29,089 --> 00:55:27,180
to the public you know what the data

1540
00:55:31,309 --> 00:55:29,099
consists of even if you can just say

1541
00:55:33,290 --> 00:55:31,319
very very clearly you know we've looked

1542
00:55:35,270 --> 00:55:33,300
at this data and it's unambiguously

1543
00:55:37,670 --> 00:55:35,280
something really anomalous and so on

1544
00:55:39,650 --> 00:55:37,680
let's get the best and brightest in to

1545
00:55:41,270 --> 00:55:39,660
analyze the data you know that's that's

1546
00:55:42,829 --> 00:55:41,280
what I would like to see anyway I think

1547
00:55:45,230 --> 00:55:42,839
I'll leave it there otherwise I'll go on

1548
00:55:51,770 --> 00:55:49,490
my uh yeah thank you uh my um

1549
00:55:55,069 --> 00:55:51,780
frustration is the probably the lack of

1550
00:55:56,750 --> 00:55:55,079
a Chris melon Lou Alexander Ryan Graves

1551
00:55:58,849 --> 00:55:56,760
from Britain

1552
00:56:01,970 --> 00:55:58,859
uh that we don't have people like that

1553
00:56:04,490 --> 00:56:01,980
who have been close to what's been going

1554
00:56:06,470 --> 00:56:04,500
on what's truly been going on

1555
00:56:08,329 --> 00:56:06,480
um in terms of your proper kind of

1556
00:56:09,589 --> 00:56:08,339
Investigations not not necessarily

1557
00:56:11,150 --> 00:56:09,599
somebody

1558
00:56:13,370 --> 00:56:11,160
um in an office somewhere but actually

1559
00:56:16,130 --> 00:56:13,380
somebody doing physical and in the field

1560
00:56:17,809 --> 00:56:16,140
investigations into what's been going

1561
00:56:20,510 --> 00:56:17,819
that have been happening

1562
00:56:22,190 --> 00:56:20,520
and we don't have that here we have

1563
00:56:23,930 --> 00:56:22,200
people who have been on the edge of this

1564
00:56:25,609 --> 00:56:23,940
so we've had people who have you know

1565
00:56:27,890 --> 00:56:25,619
worked a desk in Whitehall and taken

1566
00:56:31,730 --> 00:56:27,900
telephone calls and have passed on

1567
00:56:34,250 --> 00:56:31,740
messages to other agencies who have you

1568
00:56:35,990 --> 00:56:34,260
know very strange designations and to

1569
00:56:37,849 --> 00:56:36,000
all intents and purposes are so secret

1570
00:56:39,290 --> 00:56:37,859
that um you can't get any information

1571
00:56:40,609 --> 00:56:39,300
out them

1572
00:56:42,829 --> 00:56:40,619
um you know you can't get freedom

1573
00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:42,839
information requests um you know to find

1574
00:56:46,309 --> 00:56:44,160
out what they've done and what they've

1575
00:56:49,250 --> 00:56:46,319
published and all the rest of it

1576
00:56:51,049 --> 00:56:49,260
um so yeah it's a complete Enigma and

1577
00:56:52,430 --> 00:56:51,059
the information that does come out

1578
00:56:54,829 --> 00:56:52,440
um you know we can't really make much

1579
00:56:56,569 --> 00:56:54,839
sense of it so we've got a whole lot of

1580
00:56:58,250 --> 00:56:56,579
stuff in this country in the UK that

1581
00:57:01,190 --> 00:56:58,260
we're still trying to sift through we

1582
00:57:03,710 --> 00:57:01,200
have cases here which are completely you

1583
00:57:05,809 --> 00:57:03,720
know ambiguous such as the Calvin case

1584
00:57:07,730 --> 00:57:05,819
so you know in fact there's talking

1585
00:57:10,549 --> 00:57:07,740
about the Nimitz encounters from

1586
00:57:14,390 --> 00:57:10,559
November 2004 we have a case from August

1587
00:57:15,950 --> 00:57:14,400
1990 that we're still figuring out you

1588
00:57:17,750 --> 00:57:15,960
know trying to figure out what it was

1589
00:57:22,150 --> 00:57:17,760
and what it was doing in the middle of

1590
00:57:24,410 --> 00:57:22,160
Scotland one August evening in in 1990

1591
00:57:25,670 --> 00:57:24,420
there's a photograph now which has

1592
00:57:27,290 --> 00:57:25,680
appeared that the national two

1593
00:57:30,410 --> 00:57:27,300
photograph rather than an artist

1594
00:57:32,089 --> 00:57:30,420
reconstruction and actually the two are

1595
00:57:34,490 --> 00:57:32,099
fairly similar although the backgrounds

1596
00:57:37,130 --> 00:57:34,500
are difficult uh different rather but

1597
00:57:39,349 --> 00:57:37,140
you know again what was that that's

1598
00:57:42,349 --> 00:57:39,359
something else truly um you know kind of

1599
00:57:44,390 --> 00:57:42,359
mysterious that nobody really knows what

1600
00:57:46,609 --> 00:57:44,400
it was either so we've got a lot of

1601
00:57:48,530 --> 00:57:46,619
things which are a very very strange in

1602
00:57:51,829 --> 00:57:48,540
this country but we don't have the same

1603
00:57:54,410 --> 00:57:51,839
level of I guess people who were so

1604
00:57:55,490 --> 00:57:54,420
close to it that we can call upon you

1605
00:57:57,410 --> 00:57:55,500
know not that they can gain from

1606
00:57:59,870 --> 00:57:57,420
information because of ndas and things

1607
00:58:02,030 --> 00:57:59,880
like that but we don't have people who

1608
00:58:04,490 --> 00:58:02,040
have an inkling

1609
00:58:06,109 --> 00:58:04,500
um or some first-hand knowledge of

1610
00:58:07,849 --> 00:58:06,119
what's been going on behind the scenes

1611
00:58:10,010 --> 00:58:07,859
and I wish we did

1612
00:58:11,569 --> 00:58:10,020
Graham it's a it's a reflection of the

1613
00:58:14,270 --> 00:58:11,579
difference in our society and our

1614
00:58:17,030 --> 00:58:14,280
culture America you know the the child

1615
00:58:19,730 --> 00:58:17,040
of of original child of Britain it's a

1616
00:58:22,069 --> 00:58:19,740
very combative Society it's a society

1617
00:58:24,349 --> 00:58:22,079
that's uh very rebellious and you can

1618
00:58:25,910 --> 00:58:24,359
see with what Lou did and what what

1619
00:58:27,829 --> 00:58:25,920
Christopher did and what some of these

1620
00:58:29,329 --> 00:58:27,839
guys did is they said you know Lucid

1621
00:58:33,589 --> 00:58:29,339
through this I'm giving up my job over

1622
00:58:35,630 --> 00:58:33,599
this I mean so and and plus the the art

1623
00:58:37,670 --> 00:58:35,640
of secrecy is something that we learned

1624
00:58:40,130 --> 00:58:37,680
from the British and you guys are still

1625
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:40,140
the masters of it and so people don't

1626
00:58:43,910 --> 00:58:41,760
want to come out and there are people

1627
00:58:46,490 --> 00:58:43,920
there but they have made the decision

1628
00:58:48,829 --> 00:58:46,500
that they're going to allow the U.S to

1629
00:58:51,349 --> 00:58:48,839
to lead the way on this for whatever

1630
00:58:53,630 --> 00:58:51,359
their reasons are they're not I've said

1631
00:58:56,089 --> 00:58:53,640
before nobody's preventing anybody in

1632
00:58:58,250 --> 00:58:56,099
the British uh hierarchy from talking

1633
00:59:00,230 --> 00:58:58,260
about this that's their decision for

1634
00:59:02,690 --> 00:59:00,240
what whatever discussions they've had

1635
00:59:04,970 --> 00:59:02,700
and we could say we asked Baptiste about

1636
00:59:06,530 --> 00:59:04,980
this he I we asked him why aren't the

1637
00:59:08,510 --> 00:59:06,540
French he said do we have a program he

1638
00:59:11,150 --> 00:59:08,520
said yeah France has a program Ram we

1639
00:59:13,250 --> 00:59:11,160
have information where there I believe

1640
00:59:14,750 --> 00:59:13,260
that they're happy to let the US and and

1641
00:59:16,730 --> 00:59:14,760
I think Baptiste knows what the hell

1642
00:59:18,770 --> 00:59:16,740
he's talking about given the positions

1643
00:59:20,809 --> 00:59:18,780
that he holds and he says they're happy

1644
00:59:22,789 --> 00:59:20,819
to let the U.S lead the way to on this

1645
00:59:24,710 --> 00:59:22,799
topic and not talk about it we can say

1646
00:59:27,470 --> 00:59:24,720
the same of Spain we could say the same

1647
00:59:30,530 --> 00:59:27,480
obviously of the Italians given what Lou

1648
00:59:33,289 --> 00:59:30,540
told us the Russians uh we could say the

1649
00:59:36,530 --> 00:59:33,299
Chinese so we could say any number of

1650
00:59:37,910 --> 00:59:36,540
countries have decided that uh it's not

1651
00:59:40,010 --> 00:59:37,920
in their interest to reveal this

1652
00:59:41,750 --> 00:59:40,020
information for whatever that reason is

1653
00:59:42,950 --> 00:59:41,760
I don't know because I'm not part of

1654
00:59:45,950 --> 00:59:42,960
their culture

1655
00:59:47,930 --> 00:59:45,960
but they've the U.S this combative

1656
00:59:48,589 --> 00:59:47,940
violent

1657
00:59:51,530 --> 00:59:48,599
um

1658
00:59:52,670 --> 00:59:51,540
rebellious group that we are we've

1659
00:59:54,710 --> 00:59:52,680
decided we're not going to take it

1660
00:59:56,809 --> 00:59:54,720
anymore and now here we are so we're

1661
00:59:58,069 --> 00:59:56,819
we're a little bit ahead on on it in

1662
00:59:59,930 --> 00:59:58,079
terms of it but yeah it would be great

1663
01:00:01,910 --> 00:59:59,940
if other countries would say we're going

1664
01:00:03,530 --> 01:00:01,920
to just well that would answer you know

1665
01:00:04,970 --> 01:00:03,540
a lot of questions but a lot of

1666
01:00:07,730 --> 01:00:04,980
countries just for whatever their

1667
01:00:10,010 --> 01:00:07,740
reasons are don't want to I don't think

1668
01:00:12,170 --> 01:00:10,020
the U.S is forcing them I think they

1669
01:00:13,730 --> 01:00:12,180
have agency to do what they want to do

1670
01:00:15,829 --> 01:00:13,740
but they've decided it's not in their

1671
01:00:19,010 --> 01:00:15,839
interest to do so and they're in unison

1672
01:00:22,130 --> 01:00:19,020
by the way it's not there's no Rogue

1673
01:00:25,130 --> 01:00:22,140
country except us so anyway

1674
01:00:26,809 --> 01:00:25,140
um let's go with uh

1675
01:00:30,470 --> 01:00:26,819
um Nathan did you

1676
01:00:33,170 --> 01:00:30,480
uh remind me of where we're at um we

1677
01:00:34,549 --> 01:00:33,180
pass it to uh Frank yeah yeah do you

1678
01:00:35,770 --> 01:00:34,559
have anything you want us to consider

1679
01:00:41,630 --> 01:00:35,780
Frank

1680
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:46,730
these are on mute mate

1681
01:00:51,950 --> 01:00:49,730
oh there we go school by Era that's

1682
01:00:54,410 --> 01:00:51,960
amazing

1683
01:00:56,809 --> 01:00:54,420
um but yeah no not nothing in particular

1684
01:00:59,089 --> 01:00:56,819
really I think it's quite an interesting

1685
01:01:02,030 --> 01:00:59,099
discussion going on in the The Wider

1686
01:01:04,309 --> 01:01:02,040
Community the UFO community that is at

1687
01:01:05,809 --> 01:01:04,319
the moment is to you know something's

1688
01:01:08,150 --> 01:01:05,819
coming this is something that

1689
01:01:10,730 --> 01:01:08,160
everybody's discussing but there's not

1690
01:01:13,549 --> 01:01:10,740
actually a very clear indication of of

1691
01:01:14,809 --> 01:01:13,559
exactly what that's going to be and you

1692
01:01:16,970 --> 01:01:14,819
know there's there's so many different

1693
01:01:18,890 --> 01:01:16,980
trains of thought on this

1694
01:01:21,049 --> 01:01:18,900
um and and Nathan you'd mentioned uh

1695
01:01:22,010 --> 01:01:21,059
just earlier on about having things like

1696
01:01:24,109 --> 01:01:22,020
this

1697
01:01:26,630 --> 01:01:24,119
um NASA investigation and the arrow

1698
01:01:29,089 --> 01:01:26,640
office and bodies of you know of uh

1699
01:01:31,430 --> 01:01:29,099
officials and whatnot and

1700
01:01:32,930 --> 01:01:31,440
um you know scientists and academics and

1701
01:01:35,990 --> 01:01:32,940
things being engaged with the topic and

1702
01:01:38,870 --> 01:01:36,000
that will be good to have in place if

1703
01:01:41,390 --> 01:01:38,880
some kind of Revelation is uh you know

1704
01:01:44,390 --> 01:01:41,400
presented to to the to the public across

1705
01:01:45,530 --> 01:01:44,400
the world I suppose I'd like to to ask

1706
01:01:48,049 --> 01:01:45,540
you you know if you've got any thoughts

1707
01:01:49,789 --> 01:01:48,059
on like where that Revelation is going

1708
01:01:52,309 --> 01:01:49,799
to come from do you tend to think that

1709
01:01:53,690 --> 01:01:52,319
it's more like an Insider that's going

1710
01:01:55,370 --> 01:01:53,700
to come out from a whistleblower point

1711
01:01:58,910 --> 01:01:55,380
of view are we going to see some kind of

1712
01:02:01,010 --> 01:01:58,920
direct Revelation from whatever others

1713
01:02:03,349 --> 01:02:01,020
might be visiting the planet or is it

1714
01:02:05,450 --> 01:02:03,359
going to be like an official a Podium

1715
01:02:07,309 --> 01:02:05,460
what do you think

1716
01:02:08,510 --> 01:02:07,319
yeah good question

1717
01:02:11,210 --> 01:02:08,520
um

1718
01:02:13,609 --> 01:02:11,220
I I think it's going to come from a

1719
01:02:16,910 --> 01:02:13,619
variety of places some of which are

1720
01:02:18,890 --> 01:02:16,920
familiar to us uh Chris Mellon I gave

1721
01:02:20,450 --> 01:02:18,900
that example that's one that you know

1722
01:02:21,430 --> 01:02:20,460
Chris is always out there trying to move

1723
01:02:23,870 --> 01:02:21,440
the ball

1724
01:02:26,390 --> 01:02:23,880
downfield and and I appreciate his

1725
01:02:28,309 --> 01:02:26,400
efforts in that regard not letting us

1726
01:02:30,829 --> 01:02:28,319
forget about what is happening and

1727
01:02:32,930 --> 01:02:30,839
because of his connections and his high

1728
01:02:34,970 --> 01:02:32,940
profile he's able to you know to

1729
01:02:37,730 --> 01:02:34,980
disseminate information and be taken

1730
01:02:39,109 --> 01:02:37,740
more seriously than than some others

1731
01:02:41,870 --> 01:02:39,119
um so there'll be I think we'll hear

1732
01:02:43,670 --> 01:02:41,880
from voices like Chris uh who have been

1733
01:02:45,829 --> 01:02:43,680
you know champions of this I mean Gary

1734
01:02:48,049 --> 01:02:45,839
Nolan too is a recent example who've

1735
01:02:49,549 --> 01:02:48,059
been who's been very vocal

1736
01:02:51,410 --> 01:02:49,559
um but we're going to need more than

1737
01:02:53,329 --> 01:02:51,420
that and I think that we will I mean

1738
01:02:56,089 --> 01:02:53,339
ultimately that that's exactly what we

1739
01:03:00,170 --> 01:02:56,099
have to have right we have to have the

1740
01:03:02,450 --> 01:03:00,180
new voices who uh who both are are from

1741
01:03:05,089 --> 01:03:02,460
the inside so some voices from the

1742
01:03:08,270 --> 01:03:05,099
inside who we haven't heard from but

1743
01:03:11,450 --> 01:03:08,280
also some voices who are basically new

1744
01:03:12,829 --> 01:03:11,460
to the topic or relatively new but who

1745
01:03:15,650 --> 01:03:12,839
have authority

1746
01:03:18,170 --> 01:03:15,660
right so we need some voices like that

1747
01:03:19,789 --> 01:03:18,180
who who are saying to us you know what I

1748
01:03:22,309 --> 01:03:19,799
didn't think this was a thing

1749
01:03:24,950 --> 01:03:22,319
but I've looked at this evidence now and

1750
01:03:26,630 --> 01:03:24,960
because of my position you can you can

1751
01:03:28,750 --> 01:03:26,640
you can hear from them and go geez well

1752
01:03:31,250 --> 01:03:28,760
if they think there's a there there

1753
01:03:32,930 --> 01:03:31,260
really must be a there there right so

1754
01:03:35,270 --> 01:03:32,940
that that's the kind of thing that we

1755
01:03:37,970 --> 01:03:35,280
need to have now it's in terms of what

1756
01:03:39,650 --> 01:03:37,980
we might hear from whatever this is from

1757
01:03:42,230 --> 01:03:39,660
the others the other intelligences

1758
01:03:44,630 --> 01:03:42,240
whatever I think and I've you know

1759
01:03:46,549 --> 01:03:44,640
argued a lot about this uh or put forth

1760
01:03:48,589 --> 01:03:46,559
some some thoughts on about this on

1761
01:03:52,069 --> 01:03:48,599
liminal frames quite a bit I think that

1762
01:03:53,750 --> 01:03:52,079
we have to start getting a lot more

1763
01:03:55,849 --> 01:03:53,760
comfortable

1764
01:03:58,789 --> 01:03:55,859
with the with the understanding that

1765
01:04:00,710 --> 01:03:58,799
non-human intelligence is radically

1766
01:04:02,569 --> 01:04:00,720
different than anything we might

1767
01:04:05,569 --> 01:04:02,579
understand it to be like we might have

1768
01:04:07,609 --> 01:04:05,579
some proximate understanding of what a

1769
01:04:10,250 --> 01:04:07,619
non-human intelligence uh you know

1770
01:04:11,690 --> 01:04:10,260
totally different evolutionary line of

1771
01:04:14,809 --> 01:04:11,700
thought might look like but we really

1772
01:04:16,190 --> 01:04:14,819
have no there's no there's no there's no

1773
01:04:18,829 --> 01:04:16,200
parallel there's nothing we can be like

1774
01:04:20,510 --> 01:04:18,839
oh well you know they should have a they

1775
01:04:22,190 --> 01:04:20,520
should make a statement like at a Podium

1776
01:04:24,109 --> 01:04:22,200
and you know like in Mars Attacks or

1777
01:04:26,270 --> 01:04:24,119
something you know like these are such

1778
01:04:28,010 --> 01:04:26,280
like anthropomorphic ways of looking at

1779
01:04:30,829 --> 01:04:28,020
it I just don't think we're gonna get

1780
01:04:33,289 --> 01:04:30,839
that I think that it's very likely that

1781
01:04:36,410 --> 01:04:33,299
non-human intelligence looks at reality

1782
01:04:39,470 --> 01:04:36,420
in a way that we don't fully understand

1783
01:04:41,930 --> 01:04:39,480
that that they interact with us in ways

1784
01:04:44,990 --> 01:04:41,940
that we don't fully understand and as a

1785
01:04:47,690 --> 01:04:45,000
result the making of themselves known to

1786
01:04:49,849 --> 01:04:47,700
us is not going to happen in the way we

1787
01:04:52,309 --> 01:04:49,859
we might want it to and the way that we

1788
01:04:54,530 --> 01:04:52,319
we have uh you know fictionalized that

1789
01:04:55,670 --> 01:04:54,540
over so many years in our movies and

1790
01:04:58,370 --> 01:04:55,680
everything I just don't know that it's

1791
01:05:00,470 --> 01:04:58,380
going to unfold in that manner and that

1792
01:05:03,289 --> 01:05:00,480
you know makes it very challenging right

1793
01:05:06,109 --> 01:05:03,299
it makes it very challenging to explain

1794
01:05:08,030 --> 01:05:06,119
to understand uh to to create new

1795
01:05:10,309 --> 01:05:08,040
meaning and narrative out of it and and

1796
01:05:11,930 --> 01:05:10,319
so there'll be a lot of work to do uh

1797
01:05:14,329 --> 01:05:11,940
you know but we've heard from those who

1798
01:05:17,030 --> 01:05:14,339
are experiencers who are also telling us

1799
01:05:18,710 --> 01:05:17,040
that because of the way that these you

1800
01:05:21,170 --> 01:05:18,720
know beings interact

1801
01:05:24,410 --> 01:05:21,180
there's a kind of um information

1802
01:05:27,170 --> 01:05:24,420
transfer that that happens at a at a

1803
01:05:28,370 --> 01:05:27,180
deep you know conscious let level uh a

1804
01:05:29,990 --> 01:05:28,380
level that we're not accustomed to

1805
01:05:31,609 --> 01:05:30,000
receiving information from at least

1806
01:05:34,190 --> 01:05:31,619
explicitly although we all talk about

1807
01:05:35,809 --> 01:05:34,200
things like inspiration and intuition I

1808
01:05:38,270 --> 01:05:35,819
don't know where that came from so we

1809
01:05:39,710 --> 01:05:38,280
have a kind of corollary there but if

1810
01:05:42,530 --> 01:05:39,720
they're going to be able to interact

1811
01:05:44,930 --> 01:05:42,540
with us at That level that deep level of

1812
01:05:48,170 --> 01:05:44,940
awareness not just through this verbal

1813
01:05:49,670 --> 01:05:48,180
or non-verbal communication then uh it's

1814
01:05:51,410 --> 01:05:49,680
going to be an entirely different kind

1815
01:05:52,970 --> 01:05:51,420
of ball game I I don't know that it's

1816
01:05:54,829 --> 01:05:52,980
going to happen just with a flip of a

1817
01:05:57,829 --> 01:05:54,839
switch I think it's going to be a

1818
01:05:59,809 --> 01:05:57,839
continual sort of unfolding uh as we

1819
01:06:01,789 --> 01:05:59,819
come a dawning of a new world

1820
01:06:03,950 --> 01:06:01,799
essentially and that that process is

1821
01:06:05,270 --> 01:06:03,960
slow

1822
01:06:07,670 --> 01:06:05,280
hey

1823
01:06:09,349 --> 01:06:07,680
I guess you could have been looking at

1824
01:06:11,829 --> 01:06:09,359
like multiple

1825
01:06:15,950 --> 01:06:11,839
um nhis as well it might not just be one

1826
01:06:17,329 --> 01:06:15,960
so some of them we could be Lab Rats and

1827
01:06:19,309 --> 01:06:17,339
for others

1828
01:06:21,109 --> 01:06:19,319
um any kind of contact could be um

1829
01:06:22,849 --> 01:06:21,119
incidental uh and they might not even

1830
01:06:24,770 --> 01:06:22,859
know they're doing it it could be like

1831
01:06:26,210 --> 01:06:24,780
the Strega Brothers

1832
01:06:28,730 --> 01:06:26,220
um there's a Russian science fiction

1833
01:06:30,829 --> 01:06:28,740
authors from the 60s or 70s they wrote a

1834
01:06:32,390 --> 01:06:30,839
book called roadside picnic which other

1835
01:06:35,210 --> 01:06:32,400
people might know as a film by Andre

1836
01:06:37,250 --> 01:06:35,220
tarkovsky called stalker where there's a

1837
01:06:39,950 --> 01:06:37,260
lot of people that are basically um

1838
01:06:41,329 --> 01:06:39,960
alien rubbish left on Earth and it is

1839
01:06:43,370 --> 01:06:41,339
very dangerous

1840
01:06:45,230 --> 01:06:43,380
um and people's interaction with it but

1841
01:06:46,670 --> 01:06:45,240
it's just a case of you know maybe this

1842
01:06:49,370 --> 01:06:46,680
is just someone stopping off place that

1843
01:06:50,870 --> 01:06:49,380
they come and and have a picnic and um

1844
01:06:53,210 --> 01:06:50,880
you know their interaction with us is

1845
01:06:54,470 --> 01:06:53,220
purely you know incidental it's just

1846
01:06:55,970 --> 01:06:54,480
it's just something that happens and

1847
01:06:57,710 --> 01:06:55,980
they're not even aware of it it's just

1848
01:06:59,270 --> 01:06:57,720
like you know Do You Talk to an ant when

1849
01:07:01,309 --> 01:06:59,280
you say it walk over the side are you

1850
01:07:03,410 --> 01:07:01,319
over the sidewalk uh you don't you don't

1851
01:07:05,089 --> 01:07:03,420
stop to have a conversation with it you

1852
01:07:07,069 --> 01:07:05,099
know why why do we think yeah why are we

1853
01:07:08,990 --> 01:07:07,079
so kind of arrogant that we think that

1854
01:07:11,270 --> 01:07:09,000
some you know advanced technology or

1855
01:07:13,250 --> 01:07:11,280
race might want to speak to us while we

1856
01:07:15,829 --> 01:07:13,260
got to offer them so there's a whole of

1857
01:07:19,250 --> 01:07:15,839
things like that going on as well

1858
01:07:20,809 --> 01:07:19,260
um Arthur C Clarke's uh quota which I'll

1859
01:07:22,549 --> 01:07:20,819
probably be paraphrasing it here but is

1860
01:07:25,010 --> 01:07:22,559
you know something about along the lines

1861
01:07:27,049 --> 01:07:25,020
of you know they're not only you know we

1862
01:07:29,870 --> 01:07:27,059
can't you know we cannot imagine it's

1863
01:07:32,270 --> 01:07:29,880
because we were incapable of imagining

1864
01:07:34,789 --> 01:07:32,280
you know what they are and what their

1865
01:07:37,490 --> 01:07:34,799
motives are and what they're doing here

1866
01:07:38,750 --> 01:07:37,500
um yeah yeah I have I have one answer to

1867
01:07:40,789 --> 01:07:38,760
that though Graham what you said about

1868
01:07:42,529 --> 01:07:40,799
the ant hypothesis

1869
01:07:44,390 --> 01:07:42,539
the reason that we would think that they

1870
01:07:47,990 --> 01:07:44,400
want to communicate with us is because

1871
01:07:50,089 --> 01:07:48,000
there are lots of people that everybody

1872
01:07:51,589 --> 01:07:50,099
here knows that are saying they are

1873
01:07:53,029 --> 01:07:51,599
communicating with us

1874
01:07:56,750 --> 01:07:53,039
so that's the reason why I would think

1875
01:07:58,730 --> 01:07:56,760
that if if they said we're having no

1876
01:08:00,349 --> 01:07:58,740
communication at all no but there's all

1877
01:08:03,710 --> 01:08:00,359
these people that are from Christopher

1878
01:08:05,510 --> 01:08:03,720
Bledsoe to EXO to uh Jay King I mean you

1879
01:08:06,950 --> 01:08:05,520
could we could name off you know tons of

1880
01:08:09,049 --> 01:08:06,960
people that we all know that say that

1881
01:08:10,970 --> 01:08:09,059
that's true receiving so but not

1882
01:08:13,430 --> 01:08:10,980
everybody who has kind of you know

1883
01:08:15,829 --> 01:08:13,440
encounters with these things or with

1884
01:08:18,110 --> 01:08:15,839
strange objects or has that level of

1885
01:08:19,550 --> 01:08:18,120
communication so that could be just one

1886
01:08:21,349 --> 01:08:19,560
small part of it that's what I'm saying

1887
01:08:23,090 --> 01:08:21,359
about multiple you know there could be

1888
01:08:25,010 --> 01:08:23,100
multiple kind of actors here you know

1889
01:08:27,110 --> 01:08:25,020
it's not for sure just one

1890
01:08:28,910 --> 01:08:27,120
well let's not forget too that we

1891
01:08:31,130 --> 01:08:28,920
communicate all the time but we we don't

1892
01:08:33,229 --> 01:08:31,140
understand so how many times have you

1893
01:08:34,370 --> 01:08:33,239
had a conversation with your partner and

1894
01:08:36,110 --> 01:08:34,380
you're like yeah we're on the same page

1895
01:08:38,510 --> 01:08:36,120
there and then like you turn you you

1896
01:08:40,070 --> 01:08:38,520
find out like oh you know we weren't

1897
01:08:41,870 --> 01:08:40,080
really on the same page and even though

1898
01:08:43,430 --> 01:08:41,880
we had a whole conversation about it I

1899
01:08:44,809 --> 01:08:43,440
came away with this understanding and

1900
01:08:46,130 --> 01:08:44,819
they thought something entirely

1901
01:08:47,689 --> 01:08:46,140
different and that's just human beings

1902
01:08:50,329 --> 01:08:47,699
right so imagine what we're dealing with

1903
01:08:51,530 --> 01:08:50,339
here uh if we're not talking about human

1904
01:08:53,749 --> 01:08:51,540
interaction

1905
01:08:56,090 --> 01:08:53,759
that's a great Point

1906
01:08:57,410 --> 01:08:56,100
um yeah because if if we're fallible in

1907
01:08:59,450 --> 01:08:57,420
that way imagine when we're dealing with

1908
01:09:01,910 --> 01:08:59,460
something of a higher intelligence and

1909
01:09:03,950 --> 01:09:01,920
we're trying to interpret what they're

1910
01:09:07,309 --> 01:09:03,960
telling us and I think even Nathan would

1911
01:09:10,010 --> 01:09:07,319
probably agree perhaps there's a

1912
01:09:13,490 --> 01:09:10,020
certain amount of desire to what you

1913
01:09:16,070 --> 01:09:13,500
want to take and extract from that that

1914
01:09:18,050 --> 01:09:16,080
uh how you know that you're putting into

1915
01:09:20,150 --> 01:09:18,060
how you interpreted that communication

1916
01:09:22,669 --> 01:09:20,160
there could be some of that in in that

1917
01:09:24,470 --> 01:09:22,679
in each of those samples as well so it

1918
01:09:27,289 --> 01:09:24,480
it is uh

1919
01:09:29,329 --> 01:09:27,299
that that that's a whole show that we

1920
01:09:30,950 --> 01:09:29,339
could go on that in in answer to Frank's

1921
01:09:32,930 --> 01:09:30,960
question though

1922
01:09:34,370 --> 01:09:32,940
um I think everybody on the panel here

1923
01:09:36,709 --> 01:09:34,380
Frank

1924
01:09:38,930 --> 01:09:36,719
um is saying to us that uh

1925
01:09:42,349 --> 01:09:38,940
whistleblowers is going to be that next

1926
01:09:44,510 --> 01:09:42,359
that next egg to break uh that may

1927
01:09:47,990 --> 01:09:44,520
provide something so the ant the answer

1928
01:09:50,450 --> 01:09:48,000
is I don't know that's my answer but the

1929
01:09:52,249 --> 01:09:50,460
people that uh so me DJ I don't know but

1930
01:09:54,410 --> 01:09:52,259
people that I've spoken with and I think

1931
01:09:56,870 --> 01:09:54,420
again everybody in the panel has heard

1932
01:09:59,090 --> 01:09:56,880
from from different people that that

1933
01:10:01,669 --> 01:09:59,100
know things that um it's probably going

1934
01:10:05,330 --> 01:10:01,679
to be uh whistleblowers that that'll be

1935
01:10:07,250 --> 01:10:05,340
that next you know step forward

1936
01:10:08,750 --> 01:10:07,260
um Christopher melon when Nathan was

1937
01:10:10,310 --> 01:10:08,760
talking about that I was sort of looking

1938
01:10:12,530 --> 01:10:10,320
at you know like a running back you have

1939
01:10:14,330 --> 01:10:12,540
these running backs that'll that'll uh

1940
01:10:16,250 --> 01:10:14,340
run to the outside and then look for a

1941
01:10:18,050 --> 01:10:16,260
hole in Sprint up field and Christopher

1942
01:10:19,250 --> 01:10:18,060
melon is like this fullback that just

1943
01:10:21,050 --> 01:10:19,260
kind of takes the handoff from the

1944
01:10:23,570 --> 01:10:21,060
quarterback and he runs a dive play

1945
01:10:25,250 --> 01:10:23,580
going straight over just nailing the

1946
01:10:26,689 --> 01:10:25,260
linebacker and the other linebacker now

1947
01:10:28,850 --> 01:10:26,699
safety has to like take him down but

1948
01:10:30,410 --> 01:10:28,860
he's had like eight yards you know with

1949
01:10:33,290 --> 01:10:30,420
each carry

1950
01:10:34,910 --> 01:10:33,300
it's almost a first down each time yeah

1951
01:10:36,410 --> 01:10:34,920
definitely I think you know an

1952
01:10:38,689 --> 01:10:36,420
interesting point about Chris melon's

1953
01:10:40,250 --> 01:10:38,699
article as well and it's always one why

1954
01:10:43,010 --> 01:10:40,260
I like to overthink about things before

1955
01:10:44,870 --> 01:10:43,020
I present my take on on the Pod like you

1956
01:10:46,550 --> 01:10:44,880
mentioned earlier part of that is to see

1957
01:10:48,050 --> 01:10:46,560
if Chris melon's going to do an article

1958
01:10:49,430 --> 01:10:48,060
because he tends to have him locked and

1959
01:10:51,410 --> 01:10:49,440
loaded doesn't he ready to go whenever

1960
01:10:53,270 --> 01:10:51,420
there's a big development and I thought

1961
01:10:55,490 --> 01:10:53,280
very interestingly in that particular

1962
01:10:57,470 --> 01:10:55,500
article was that he mentioned that he's

1963
01:10:59,570 --> 01:10:57,480
referred and he spoke to various

1964
01:11:01,189 --> 01:10:59,580
whistleblowers about crash retrievals

1965
01:11:03,830 --> 01:11:01,199
and whatnot but very interestingly he

1966
01:11:06,050 --> 01:11:03,840
also said after that rightly or wrongly

1967
01:11:07,970 --> 01:11:06,060
there were several others more directly

1968
01:11:09,649 --> 01:11:07,980
involved that didn't want to go to our

1969
01:11:13,130 --> 01:11:09,659
office of concerns over Arrow's

1970
01:11:15,950 --> 01:11:13,140
leadership so that sort of it is what it

1971
01:11:16,669 --> 01:11:15,960
is but it would suggest to me that you

1972
01:11:18,590 --> 01:11:16,679
know

1973
01:11:20,110 --> 01:11:18,600
there's perhaps not a lot of faith there

1974
01:11:22,550 --> 01:11:20,120
from those who've got the most

1975
01:11:24,470 --> 01:11:22,560
significant direct involvement with

1976
01:11:25,970 --> 01:11:24,480
these alleged reverse engineering

1977
01:11:27,290 --> 01:11:25,980
programs there's not a lot of faith that

1978
01:11:29,450 --> 01:11:27,300
they're going to actually have their

1979
01:11:31,669 --> 01:11:29,460
stories taken seriously or or perhaps

1980
01:11:33,229 --> 01:11:31,679
there's concerns around the actual

1981
01:11:34,850 --> 01:11:33,239
um secure system that's supposed to be

1982
01:11:36,290 --> 01:11:34,860
set up for them to come forward and that

1983
01:11:38,510 --> 01:11:36,300
kind of thing and that they're actually

1984
01:11:40,790 --> 01:11:38,520
probably not going to go to Arrow at

1985
01:11:42,590 --> 01:11:40,800
least for the moment so I would suggest

1986
01:11:44,930 --> 01:11:42,600
that whistleblowers is more likely to be

1987
01:11:46,490 --> 01:11:44,940
the thing I've been joking on on my pod

1988
01:11:48,709 --> 01:11:46,500
that if there's a government official

1989
01:11:50,990 --> 01:11:48,719
stands up on a Podium I will eat a raw

1990
01:11:53,090 --> 01:11:51,000
mushroom live on camera if that's if

1991
01:11:54,770 --> 01:11:53,100
it's this year by the way just and I'm

1992
01:11:57,770 --> 01:11:54,780
not a big fan of raw mushrooms at all so

1993
01:12:00,709 --> 01:11:57,780
hence why I would do that but I think

1994
01:12:02,149 --> 01:12:00,719
there's very very little chance uh of a

1995
01:12:04,669 --> 01:12:02,159
government official coming out saying

1996
01:12:06,649 --> 01:12:04,679
anything I think most likely the the you

1997
01:12:08,510 --> 01:12:06,659
know achingly slow pace of things with

1998
01:12:10,610 --> 01:12:08,520
our own and these other efforts is

1999
01:12:12,290 --> 01:12:10,620
probably gonna if anything push people

2000
01:12:14,510 --> 01:12:12,300
perhaps were considering coming forward

2001
01:12:16,669 --> 01:12:14,520
with their official channels to do it

2002
01:12:18,649 --> 01:12:16,679
um off their own back perhaps going to a

2003
01:12:20,570 --> 01:12:18,659
a big media publication or something

2004
01:12:23,390 --> 01:12:20,580
like that I think the likelihood of has

2005
01:12:24,470 --> 01:12:23,400
seen that this year pretty high but yeah

2006
01:12:27,290 --> 01:12:24,480
I don't think we're going to get it from

2007
01:12:29,290 --> 01:12:27,300
any officials personally

2008
01:12:32,090 --> 01:12:29,300
um but we'll we'll see eh

2009
01:12:35,030 --> 01:12:32,100
yeah I I have to agree with you and then

2010
01:12:37,250 --> 01:12:35,040
uh not to throw this hand grenade in the

2011
01:12:41,229 --> 01:12:37,260
room but uh the Lou Elizondo saying come

2012
01:12:44,990 --> 01:12:41,239
back in five years in 2022 and then um

2013
01:12:48,290 --> 01:12:45,000
John Ramirez talking about 2027 and all

2014
01:12:49,729 --> 01:12:48,300
that so I mean I don't you know that's

2015
01:12:51,770 --> 01:12:49,739
it's an interesting that they've thrown

2016
01:12:54,410 --> 01:12:51,780
that out there uh I don't know if

2017
01:12:56,930 --> 01:12:54,420
anybody has any quick takes on that and

2018
01:13:03,430 --> 01:12:56,940
then we'll start to go with uh cabbie

2019
01:13:07,790 --> 01:13:06,110
no I I'm afraid I have no opinion one

2020
01:13:09,890 --> 01:13:07,800
way or another I don't know enough about

2021
01:13:12,050 --> 01:13:09,900
you know I don't have any kind of

2022
01:13:14,630 --> 01:13:12,060
particular insight into what they're

2023
01:13:16,790 --> 01:13:14,640
speaking about so I can't tell whether

2024
01:13:19,010 --> 01:13:16,800
the dates there you know the being

2025
01:13:21,110 --> 01:13:19,020
banded about uh you know how relevant

2026
01:13:22,910 --> 01:13:21,120
they are and now that there's two

2027
01:13:24,590 --> 01:13:22,920
different or multiple dates out there

2028
01:13:25,669 --> 01:13:24,600
then who knows

2029
01:13:27,470 --> 01:13:25,679
um you know the next thing we're going

2030
01:13:29,270 --> 01:13:27,480
to see is somebody with a work the end

2031
01:13:30,669 --> 01:13:29,280
is nigh kind of like your kind of

2032
01:13:34,149 --> 01:13:30,679
Sandwich Board

2033
01:13:38,810 --> 01:13:36,110
here's what's interesting about it

2034
01:13:41,209 --> 01:13:38,820
though if you look at two people that

2035
01:13:43,070 --> 01:13:41,219
represent different sides of the

2036
01:13:45,890 --> 01:13:43,080
equation and ironically one of them

2037
01:13:48,950 --> 01:13:45,900
really represents both sides but the

2038
01:13:51,950 --> 01:13:48,960
nuts and bolts gram Rendell you know

2039
01:13:54,709 --> 01:13:51,960
Frank Jones side Lou elizondo's is all

2040
01:13:57,169 --> 01:13:54,719
over that he has been a a you know

2041
01:13:59,149 --> 01:13:57,179
primary source for for you and all of us

2042
01:14:01,010 --> 01:13:59,159
right and John Ramirez actually

2043
01:14:04,070 --> 01:14:01,020
straddles both sides because he's an

2044
01:14:05,750 --> 01:14:04,080
experiencer and he's talked about of the

2045
01:14:08,209 --> 01:14:05,760
woo side about having downloads and

2046
01:14:10,790 --> 01:14:08,219
Communications and interactions so both

2047
01:14:12,649 --> 01:14:10,800
of them are setting that approximate

2048
01:14:15,110 --> 01:14:12,659
date that's what's that's what's

2049
01:14:16,550 --> 01:14:15,120
interesting is it it's coming from two

2050
01:14:18,290 --> 01:14:16,560
different people from two different

2051
01:14:19,610 --> 01:14:18,300
perspectives but the same time frame

2052
01:14:21,530 --> 01:14:19,620
right Nathan

2053
01:14:22,310 --> 01:14:21,540
yeah no for sure

2054
01:14:24,530 --> 01:14:22,320
um

2055
01:14:26,570 --> 01:14:24,540
you know there's something about uh

2056
01:14:29,149 --> 01:14:26,580
predictions right I think we we kind of

2057
01:14:31,010 --> 01:14:29,159
hate them in a way we

2058
01:14:34,189 --> 01:14:31,020
um sorry mess up backs up there we hate

2059
01:14:35,689 --> 01:14:34,199
them and we love them uh because uh

2060
01:14:38,149 --> 01:14:35,699
they're they're fun they're titillating

2061
01:14:40,189 --> 01:14:38,159
they're exciting uh but inevitably in

2062
01:14:42,830 --> 01:14:40,199
Human Experience they often you know

2063
01:14:44,570 --> 01:14:42,840
come and go every generation they come

2064
01:14:45,890 --> 01:14:44,580
and go and we can point to history and

2065
01:14:47,270 --> 01:14:45,900
be like yeah look how they were wrong

2066
01:14:49,790 --> 01:14:47,280
there they thought this was gonna happen

2067
01:14:52,310 --> 01:14:49,800
they were wrong there so I think we have

2068
01:14:55,010 --> 01:14:52,320
a we have a valid reason to be skeptical

2069
01:14:56,390 --> 01:14:55,020
about some of these predictions and

2070
01:14:57,530 --> 01:14:56,400
claims

2071
01:14:59,570 --> 01:14:57,540
um and I think we should I think we

2072
01:15:02,149 --> 01:14:59,580
should approach that with a you know a

2073
01:15:04,010 --> 01:15:02,159
dose of healthy skepticism

2074
01:15:06,890 --> 01:15:04,020
um that that will come to pass now that

2075
01:15:08,330 --> 01:15:06,900
said I think it's hard to argue that uh

2076
01:15:10,729 --> 01:15:08,340
we're not going to be experiencing

2077
01:15:13,010 --> 01:15:10,739
something pretty bizarre in the next few

2078
01:15:15,229 --> 01:15:13,020
years uh and that can and I'm strict

2079
01:15:17,270 --> 01:15:15,239
here speaking strictly about things that

2080
01:15:19,850 --> 01:15:17,280
aren't you know alien intelligence at

2081
01:15:21,649 --> 01:15:19,860
all just where we are in our own

2082
01:15:23,810 --> 01:15:21,659
technological development and

2083
01:15:26,870 --> 01:15:23,820
advancement as a species on this planet

2084
01:15:29,330 --> 01:15:26,880
uh we are playing with tools and

2085
01:15:31,130 --> 01:15:29,340
technology that are you know almost like

2086
01:15:33,530 --> 01:15:31,140
rapidly advancing beyond our ability to

2087
01:15:35,870 --> 01:15:33,540
understand them you know things like

2088
01:15:37,310 --> 01:15:35,880
we've already cracked uh you know the

2089
01:15:38,930 --> 01:15:37,320
the atom but we're talking about

2090
01:15:41,149 --> 01:15:38,940
artificial intelligence now and

2091
01:15:43,070 --> 01:15:41,159
implementing that in ways that uh that

2092
01:15:45,530 --> 01:15:43,080
are changing the world right now as we

2093
01:15:48,709 --> 01:15:45,540
speak and those changes I believe are

2094
01:15:51,229 --> 01:15:48,719
only going to continue to accelerate uh

2095
01:15:53,149 --> 01:15:51,239
changes to our every facet of our life

2096
01:15:55,189 --> 01:15:53,159
you know how we how we learn how we how

2097
01:15:56,990 --> 01:15:55,199
we how we interact How We Do met

2098
01:15:59,330 --> 01:15:57,000
medicine all these things are going to

2099
01:16:01,370 --> 01:15:59,340
be impacted by artificial intelligence

2100
01:16:04,310 --> 01:16:01,380
and that's a type of foreign

2101
01:16:07,370 --> 01:16:04,320
intelligence to us that is you know only

2102
01:16:10,250 --> 01:16:07,380
proximally understandable so that to me

2103
01:16:12,110 --> 01:16:10,260
is is basically certain uh and then you

2104
01:16:13,669 --> 01:16:12,120
add on top of that the the dramatic

2105
01:16:16,729 --> 01:16:13,679
changes that are happening to our world

2106
01:16:18,770 --> 01:16:16,739
with uh with our climate and our you

2107
01:16:21,290 --> 01:16:18,780
know our the heightening tensions that

2108
01:16:22,550 --> 01:16:21,300
we see with our our politics I mean all

2109
01:16:25,669 --> 01:16:22,560
these things are aren't getting better

2110
01:16:28,550 --> 01:16:25,679
as far as I can tell I'd like them to

2111
01:16:30,110 --> 01:16:28,560
um and so I think we are headed for uh

2112
01:16:32,689 --> 01:16:30,120
you know it seems like we're headed for

2113
01:16:34,550 --> 01:16:32,699
a precipice of some kind or another

2114
01:16:36,310 --> 01:16:34,560
um I hope we get past it right I hope I

2115
01:16:39,050 --> 01:16:36,320
hope that we do Transition through that

2116
01:16:40,850 --> 01:16:39,060
and perhaps we do it with the help of

2117
01:16:43,070 --> 01:16:40,860
something else you know perhaps we do it

2118
01:16:45,470 --> 01:16:43,080
uh with the help of others who may have

2119
01:16:47,209 --> 01:16:45,480
who have been down that road before who

2120
01:16:49,669 --> 01:16:47,219
have learned lessons from their own past

2121
01:16:51,830 --> 01:16:49,679
and are here to maybe help us transition

2122
01:16:54,169 --> 01:16:51,840
through these very challenging times

2123
01:16:56,750 --> 01:16:54,179
that that's the hopeful optimistic and

2124
01:16:58,070 --> 01:16:56,760
wave and romantic inside of me that is

2125
01:16:59,810 --> 01:16:58,080
looking at these predictions and

2126
01:17:02,390 --> 01:16:59,820
thinking you know there will be the best

2127
01:17:04,010 --> 01:17:02,400
on the other end on the other hand maybe

2128
01:17:05,570 --> 01:17:04,020
not you know maybe we have a great

2129
01:17:07,550 --> 01:17:05,580
filter moment

2130
01:17:09,050 --> 01:17:07,560
that we just don't get passed and I try

2131
01:17:12,169 --> 01:17:09,060
not to dwell on that because I have kids

2132
01:17:14,270 --> 01:17:12,179
and you know I like the world so

2133
01:17:15,770 --> 01:17:14,280
Nathan Offers our best hope he would

2134
01:17:18,250 --> 01:17:15,780
have been a great captain of the Battle

2135
01:17:20,990 --> 01:17:18,260
Star Galactica

2136
01:17:24,590 --> 01:17:21,000
he could have been a dhama

2137
01:17:27,050 --> 01:17:24,600
um so let's go with uh and we'll go to

2138
01:17:29,750 --> 01:17:27,060
our cabbie goodbyes with our our new

2139
01:17:31,550 --> 01:17:29,760
cabbie Frank uh and the deliberative

2140
01:17:34,550 --> 01:17:31,560
process that he goes through and the

2141
01:17:36,530 --> 01:17:34,560
patients that he shows is one of the

2142
01:17:38,390 --> 01:17:36,540
reasons why and his you know His

2143
01:17:40,490 --> 01:17:38,400
Brilliant analysis is one of the reasons

2144
01:17:42,890 --> 01:17:40,500
why we not only wanted his show on the

2145
01:17:45,830 --> 01:17:42,900
cab network but we wanted him to be in

2146
01:17:49,189 --> 01:17:45,840
cab so luckily he was amenable to both

2147
01:17:51,530 --> 01:17:49,199
so let's go with cabbie goodbye Franklin

2148
01:17:53,209 --> 01:17:51,540
yeah thanks everybody I was a bit ranty

2149
01:17:55,490 --> 01:17:53,219
today I've ended up going on a couple of

2150
01:17:58,010 --> 01:17:55,500
tangents there but um it's a brilliant

2151
01:17:59,930 --> 01:17:58,020
brilliant discussion as always always a

2152
01:18:01,550 --> 01:17:59,940
pleasure Graham to speak to you mate and

2153
01:18:02,750 --> 01:18:01,560
uh look forward to your next book I've

2154
01:18:04,850 --> 01:18:02,760
got all of the other ones in the shelf

2155
01:18:07,070 --> 01:18:04,860
behind me yeah with Graham's been kind

2156
01:18:08,810 --> 01:18:07,080
enough to uh to actually sign them as

2157
01:18:10,490 --> 01:18:08,820
well and uh we've had the opportunity to

2158
01:18:11,689 --> 01:18:10,500
have a pint or two here and there over

2159
01:18:12,649 --> 01:18:11,699
the last couple of years so I look

2160
01:18:14,330 --> 01:18:12,659
forward to getting the next one

2161
01:18:16,850 --> 01:18:14,340
hopefully and uh yeah thanks everyone

2162
01:18:18,350 --> 01:18:16,860
it's been a pleasure

2163
01:18:20,149 --> 01:18:18,360
um real quick Nathan before you go Dr

2164
01:18:21,950 --> 01:18:20,159
Taylor here something that we we've

2165
01:18:24,830 --> 01:18:21,960
heard Lou actually actually the same

2166
01:18:26,390 --> 01:18:24,840
Senate uh sentiment that uh discloser is

2167
01:18:28,250 --> 01:18:26,400
not an event it's a process most

2168
01:18:30,530 --> 01:18:28,260
compelling evidence will not convince

2169
01:18:32,570 --> 01:18:30,540
those who refuse to believe what they

2170
01:18:34,790 --> 01:18:32,580
are seeing so yes he couldn't couldn't

2171
01:18:36,890 --> 01:18:34,800
be more right about that doctor so well

2172
01:18:39,110 --> 01:18:36,900
said uh yeah this has been a great show

2173
01:18:40,430 --> 01:18:39,120
and uh you know Graham always a pleasure

2174
01:18:43,790 --> 01:18:40,440
to speak with you I'm going to be seeing

2175
01:18:45,590 --> 01:18:43,800
you soon in Roswell I will so I will uh

2176
01:18:47,870 --> 01:18:45,600
bring a copy of your book so that I can

2177
01:18:49,790 --> 01:18:47,880
get it signed uh in person that would be

2178
01:18:51,169 --> 01:18:49,800
terrific uh it's been several months

2179
01:18:53,030 --> 01:18:51,179
since we've last seen each other and I

2180
01:18:54,649 --> 01:18:53,040
look forward to that reunion and I look

2181
01:18:57,229 --> 01:18:54,659
forward to what you will be saying there

2182
01:18:58,430 --> 01:18:57,239
uh and I hope those who aren't familiar

2183
01:19:00,530 --> 01:18:58,440
with your work you're listening or

2184
01:19:03,169 --> 01:19:00,540
watching they seek out your books they

2185
01:19:05,689 --> 01:19:03,179
add them to their bookshelf uh this is a

2186
01:19:09,070 --> 01:19:05,699
man who has devoted a lot of time energy

2187
01:19:13,130 --> 01:19:09,080
talent to unearthing the amazing history

2188
01:19:15,890 --> 01:19:13,140
of anomalous sightings in the world and

2189
01:19:18,290 --> 01:19:15,900
you are setting yourself selling

2190
01:19:19,970 --> 01:19:18,300
yourself or if you're not reading his

2191
01:19:22,910 --> 01:19:19,980
content and getting brought up to speed

2192
01:19:24,350 --> 01:19:22,920
on what all there is to know if you do

2193
01:19:26,390 --> 01:19:24,360
you'll be ahead of the curve you'll be

2194
01:19:28,310 --> 01:19:26,400
ahead of everyone else who's new to this

2195
01:19:30,470 --> 01:19:28,320
topic so get those books you can find

2196
01:19:33,530 --> 01:19:30,480
them on Amazon and you can find Graham

2197
01:19:35,149 --> 01:19:33,540
as well on uh on on the podcast uh sort

2198
01:19:37,550 --> 01:19:35,159
of circuit you know he's he's around all

2199
01:19:38,870 --> 01:19:37,560
the time and uh he's he's a wealth of

2200
01:19:40,430 --> 01:19:38,880
knowledge that you'll want to tune into

2201
01:19:43,310 --> 01:19:40,440
so Graham again thank you so much for

2202
01:19:44,630 --> 01:19:43,320
being with us thank you guys and it's

2203
01:19:45,890 --> 01:19:44,640
all it's always been a pleasure to meet

2204
01:19:48,530 --> 01:19:45,900
you all in person different times

2205
01:19:50,330 --> 01:19:48,540
different places and look forward to the

2206
01:19:52,310 --> 01:19:50,340
next time we meet and yes Nathan I will

2207
01:19:54,890 --> 01:19:52,320
see you at the end of the month

2208
01:19:57,950 --> 01:19:54,900
uh and it's gonna be hard for me to say

2209
01:19:59,990 --> 01:19:57,960
it any better than Nathan just said it

2210
01:20:02,450 --> 01:20:00,000
um but I would say if if you look at

2211
01:20:04,850 --> 01:20:02,460
what you're seeing right here this uh

2212
01:20:06,830 --> 01:20:04,860
the positivity and the Brotherhood that

2213
01:20:08,870 --> 01:20:06,840
you see here this is what you need to

2214
01:20:11,630 --> 01:20:08,880
look at to the community and say yes

2215
01:20:13,729 --> 01:20:11,640
this is this is what's here there's a

2216
01:20:15,530 --> 01:20:13,739
lot of you know stupidity that goes on

2217
01:20:17,990 --> 01:20:15,540
well just don't even don't even take

2218
01:20:20,510 --> 01:20:18,000
part in it because there's so much you

2219
01:20:22,370 --> 01:20:20,520
you make lifelong friends here and

2220
01:20:24,110 --> 01:20:22,380
that's what I feel like with these

2221
01:20:26,870 --> 01:20:24,120
gentlemen you see on the screen here I

2222
01:20:28,790 --> 01:20:26,880
have lifelong friends as a result of

2223
01:20:30,590 --> 01:20:28,800
being involved in this community in this

2224
01:20:32,510 --> 01:20:30,600
topic and that's the takeaway the

2225
01:20:34,790 --> 01:20:32,520
takeaway is not the idiots out there

2226
01:20:37,310 --> 01:20:34,800
that are that are just trying to sort of

2227
01:20:39,890 --> 01:20:37,320
split everybody apart and and discredit

2228
01:20:42,169 --> 01:20:39,900
people but but see you know come to the

2229
01:20:45,590 --> 01:20:42,179
community find people that you can

2230
01:20:48,229 --> 01:20:45,600
really uh bond with and form a lifelong

2231
01:20:50,090 --> 01:20:48,239
friendship because when this show is

2232
01:20:53,030 --> 01:20:50,100
long gone and it's not a show anymore

2233
01:20:55,669 --> 01:20:53,040
I'm still gonna have Graham and Nathan

2234
01:20:57,229 --> 01:20:55,679
and Frank as my friends and that's the

2235
01:20:59,390 --> 01:20:57,239
important part

2236
01:21:01,130 --> 01:20:59,400
um the the shows and the ratings and the

2237
01:21:03,709 --> 01:21:01,140
clicks and the likes it's all

2238
01:21:08,450 --> 01:21:03,719
it's not Material it's not it's not an

2239
01:21:09,590 --> 01:21:08,460
issue so uh Graham it is an honor to to

2240
01:21:11,750 --> 01:21:09,600
know you

2241
01:21:17,090 --> 01:21:11,760
as I was just saying there to be your

2242
01:21:19,370 --> 01:21:17,100
friend to watch you work uh and to be an

2243
01:21:21,470 --> 01:21:19,380
example kind of how to be in the

2244
01:21:23,990 --> 01:21:21,480
community and to contribute to the

2245
01:21:26,930 --> 01:21:24,000
community so thank you so much for your

2246
01:21:29,810 --> 01:21:26,940
friendship and for your work

2247
01:21:32,510 --> 01:21:29,820
um and um it's just an honor thank you

2248
01:21:34,010 --> 01:21:32,520
okay sir thank you DJ and thank you

2249
01:21:35,149 --> 01:21:34,020
again for the invitation it's always a

2250
01:21:36,169 --> 01:21:35,159
pleasure coming on speaking to you

2251
01:21:38,030 --> 01:21:36,179
gentlemen

2252
01:21:39,229 --> 01:21:38,040
yeah it's this door's open you just

2253
01:21:41,750 --> 01:21:39,239
gotta be like yo I got something I want

2254
01:21:44,209 --> 01:21:41,760
to talk about message uh any one of us

2255
01:21:46,010 --> 01:21:44,219
that's on cab and uh and we'll get you

2256
01:21:48,770 --> 01:21:46,020
on that calendar so that that's a done

2257
01:21:51,290 --> 01:21:48,780
deal okay so uh as Julie likes to say

2258
01:21:52,850 --> 01:21:51,300
like And subscribe comment on YouTube it

2259
01:21:55,970 --> 01:21:52,860
really does help if you would give us a

2260
01:21:57,649 --> 01:21:55,980
rating on uh Apple podcast uh or

2261
01:21:59,209 --> 01:21:57,659
something like that and and really the

2262
01:22:01,189 --> 01:21:59,219
the purpose of those numbers is just

2263
01:22:02,930 --> 01:22:01,199
that when we're trying to get somebody

2264
01:22:04,189 --> 01:22:02,940
that is kind of teetered they don't

2265
01:22:06,110 --> 01:22:04,199
really know us so they don't know if

2266
01:22:07,669 --> 01:22:06,120
they want to come on sometimes they'll

2267
01:22:09,830 --> 01:22:07,679
look at these metrics and decide okay

2268
01:22:11,390 --> 01:22:09,840
I'll come on it's not you know we're not

2269
01:22:13,490 --> 01:22:11,400
making any money out of it but it's just

2270
01:22:15,350 --> 01:22:13,500
a matter of of uh trying to convince

2271
01:22:17,630 --> 01:22:15,360
people to come and speak with us like

2272
01:22:19,490 --> 01:22:17,640
Bono from YouTube for example

2273
01:22:26,149 --> 01:22:19,500
Frank maybe you can arrange that or at

2274
01:22:31,910 --> 01:22:29,450
Graham Randall for our cabbie Frank for

2275
01:22:35,030 --> 01:22:31,920
my co-conspirator enjoy fun and

2276
01:22:37,490 --> 01:22:35,040
interesting UFO talk Nathan this is DJ

2277
01:22:40,130 --> 01:22:37,500
and for Julie in the chat this DJ is

2278
01:22:41,750 --> 01:22:40,140
saying peace out one love we'll see you

2279
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:41,760
down the road and you know we're always